More Chat about Originalism, Constitutionalism and German Liberalism

[BridgeTroll]

I was referring to them all.  I would like to know fineho's source for this...

The Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and has another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories. 

W did a fair job in 2005.  Here is what they did...

http://www.brac.gov/

The Congress established the 2005 BRAC Commission to ensure the integrity of the base closure and realignment process. As directed by law, the Commission will provide an objective, non-partisan, and independent review and analysis of the list of military installation recommendations issued by the Department of Defense (DoD) on May 13, 2005. The recommendations provided by DoD are extremely complex and interrelated and will require in-depth analysis and careful attention to detail. The Commission will follow a fair, open, and equitable process, as set forth by statute. The Commission's mission is to assess whether the DoD recommendations substantially deviated from the Congressional criteria used to evaluate each military base. While giving priority to the criteria of military value, the Commission will also take into account the human impact of the base closures and will consider the possible economic, environmental, and other effects on the surrounding communities.

[FayeforCure]

Not to be confused with BRIC:

The BRIC thesis recognizes that Brazil, Russia, India and China have changed their political systems to embrace global capitalism. Goldman Sachs predicts ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

WHAT???

Republicans think the US is the ONLY capitalistic nation in the world!?!?

[finehoe]

I would like to know fineho's source for this...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

http://www.brac.gov/

I'm not sure what your point is about the BRAC.  Six years later only a handful of facilities have been closed; most have been "realigned".  In other words taxpayer money has been squandered moving the facilities from one location to another.

[BridgeTroll]

I would like to know fineho's source for this...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

http://www.brac.gov/

I'm not sure what your point is about the BRAC.  Six years later only a handful of facilities have been closed; most have been "realigned".  In other words taxpayer money has been squandered moving the facilities from one location to another.

Thanks for the link... though unless I missed it nothing there confirms your numbers.  My point is I agree with you.  I also contend the reason so few facilities have been actually shut down is due to our congress... NOT the pentagon.  The process becomes politcal need rather than military need.  Like most things in the budget... everyone wants "those bases over there" closed down... not "this one over here".

[BridgeTroll]

Brac has been more successful than I initially thought...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure

Base Realignment and Closure (or BRAC) is a process of the United States federal government directed at the administration and operation of the Armed Forces, used by the United States Department of Defense (DoD) and Congress to close excess military installations and realign the total asset inventory to reduce expenditures on operations and maintenance, aimed at achieving increased efficiency in line with Congressional and DoD objectives. More than 350 installations have been closed in five BRAC rounds: 1989, 1991, 1993, 1995 and the most recent round of BRAC completed and entered into law in November 2005.

This link actually list bases...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases

[finehoe]

The precise number of bases or how many of them "could" be closed under BRAC is not the point.  The bases are merely a symptom of the United States' global empire.  Whether it's due to Congress or the Pentagon is also a distraction.  The issue I have is why is this flagrant disregard of the Constitution that costs us trillions so often given a pass by the very same people who get so bent out of shape about programs that cost much less that they claim are also unconstitutional?

[NotNow]

I agree that we will have to reduce defense.  I think some of the assumed numbers are wrong though.  I think that finehoe got some bad numbers for how many bases and US Defense spending has not increased 81 percent since 2001.  Perhaps a typo or information that was not communicated correctly in the original articles

[buckethead]

I can't see how military spending wouldn't have increased exponentially since 2001, based on our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. (the jury seems to be out on Libya)

I suppose Congress might view wars as discretionary spending.

[BridgeTroll]

The precise number of bases or how many of them "could" be closed under BRAC is not the point.  The bases are merely a symptom of the United States' global empire.  Whether it's due to Congress or the Pentagon is also a distraction.  The issue I have is why is this flagrant disregard of the Constitution that costs us trillions so often given a pass by the very same people who get so bent out of shape about programs that cost much less that they claim are also unconstitutional?

Well then here is where we disagree.  If you are as interested in reducing the Defence budget as I am then reducing the number of bases at home and overseas is part of the process.  It is too bad that you see it as only a distraction the reasons why more money cannot be cut and therefore saved from that budget.  Merely pointing a finger at "right wingers" is ignoring reality.  There are plenty of "right wingers" who would love to see the defence budget cut deeply.

[NotNow]

If you think going $1.6 TRILLION in debt every year is taking us to a good place financially, then I'd like to hear your explanation.

If you can't understand my posts, then you should not make comments that make you sound illiterate.  Now, wash yourself in the blood of Jesus and see if you can be of some use in the discussion.

That said, I stand corrected on the 81% figure.  That figure appears to be at least close to reality if all defense related spending is counted.

[Timkin]

Man....What I could do with 1.6 Trillion.  Don't think anymore Springfield homes would fall .

[ChriswUfGator]

If you think going $1.6 TRILLION in debt every year is taking us to a good place financially, then I'd like to hear your explanation.

If you can't understand my posts, then you should not make comments that make you sound illiterate.  Now, wash yourself in the blood of Jesus and see if you can be of some use in the discussion.

That said, I stand corrected on the 81% figure.  That figure appears to be at least close to reality if all defense related spending is counted.

Great, so you're in agreement we should immediately cease all foreign military intervention since we can't afford it?

[buckethead]

And foreign aid. Then we can finally talk about fiscal responsibility and moral higher ground.

[finehoe]

Republicans, quite smartly, recognize that there is great political hay to be made in the appearance of deficit reduction, and that white middle class voters will respond with overwhelming enthusiasm to any call for reductions in the “welfare state,” a term which said voters will instantly associate with black welfare moms and Mexicans sneaking over the border to visit American emergency rooms.

The problem, of course, is that to actually make significant cuts in what is left of the “welfare state,” one has to cut Medicare and Medicaid, programs overwhelmingly patronized by white people, and particularly white seniors. So when the time comes to actually pull the trigger on the proposed reductions, the whippersnappers are quietly removed from the stage and life goes on as usual, i.e. with massive deficit spending on defense, upper-class tax cuts, bailouts, corporate subsidies, and big handouts to Pharma and the insurance industries.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/tax-cuts-for-the-rich-on-the-backs-of-the-middle-class-or-paul-ryan-has-balls-20110407

[BridgeTroll]

  Amazing 

white middle class voters will respond with overwhelming enthusiasm

'cause they respond very well to the puppet strings of their masters...

I do love his description of himself tho...

a coddled, overcompensated media yuppie whose idea of sacrifice is raking one’s own leaves