More Chat about Originalism, Constitutionalism and German Liberalism

[BridgeTroll]

Blah blah blah...

We also instituted the Glass-Steagall act to prevent the banking abuses of that depression from occuring again. Unfortunately Clinton did not veto the Republican dreamed up idea of repealing the Glass-Steagall Act and that set in motion the very questionable derivatives, CDO speculative bubble that caused our current crash.

The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90–8 (one not voting) and in the House: 362–57 (15 not voting). The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

Do do you realize you just confirmed what I said? It is also unfortunate that we have so many Blue Dog Dems that go along with whatever the Republicans dream up.

You are missing the point... the bigger picture... take off you democrat glasses and look at the vote.  Repealing Glass steagal was a model of bipartisanship!  90 to 8!?  362 to 57?!

The same holds true for the evil corporate loopholes and incentives!!  These are not things dreamed up and foisted upon the virginal unsuspecting democrats.  Most of em are with the full support and votes of both parties.

[uptowngirl]

These companies legally don't owe anything. Here is where your point is flawed. repulican and democrat leaders have created a tax code that legally allows these companies to not pay taxes. Should they pay taxes on their profit? Absolutely, but only when the tax code is changed and we can legally require payment of those taxes.


I am not against a social saftey net, I am against longterm welfare, I am also against people collecting welfare while they work for cash, drive a brand new 50K car, and watch a 60 inch flatscreen TV. I am frustrated that the disabled little old lady down the street gets $75 a month for food while two neighbors across the street get $500 a month to feed grown men that just won't work, or work for illegally for cash.  The children in these homes also get three free meals a day at school, on top of the $500 a month in foodstamps. This is the F'upd program than runs rampant in the US today.

Again Faye, sitting down in St. Johns County whining about why we the tax payers will not foot the $500 bill for your daughters' IUDs just proves how out of touch you are with reality.You want to make a real difference in peoples life? Clean up the system and start where your heart supposedly is. Stop welfare fraud and abuse and take away the tea party's poster children, while getting our aide to the right people for the right reasons, otherwise we suffer the consquences of the Rick Scotts of the world who will just attempt to cut everything.

[FayeforCure]

Blah blah blah...

We also instituted the Glass-Steagall act to prevent the banking abuses of that depression from occuring again. Unfortunately Clinton did not veto the Republican dreamed up idea of repealing the Glass-Steagall Act and that set in motion the very questionable derivatives, CDO speculative bubble that caused our current crash.

The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90â€"8 (one not voting) and in the House: 362â€"57 (15 not voting). The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

Do do you realize you just confirmed what I said? It is also unfortunate that we have so many Blue Dog Dems that go along with whatever the Republicans dream up.

You are missing the point... the bigger picture... take off you democrat glasses and look at the vote.  Repealing Glass steagal was a model of bipartisanship!  90 to 8!?  362 to 57?!

The same holds true for the evil corporate loopholes and incentives!!  These are not things dreamed up and foisted upon the virginal unsuspecting democrats.  Most of em are with the full support and votes of both parties.

Yup, just like the Iraq war was. Were there any Republican hold-outs then? I don't think so, but we did have a few Democratic hold-outs. If we build on that we can make the change we need.

That's about the only thing I like about one Republican, Ron Paul,  at least he is consistent in calling for all foreign wars to stop!

[FayeforCure]

These companies legally don't owe anything. Here is where your point is flawed. repulican and democrat leaders have created a tax code that legally allows these companies to not pay taxes. Should they pay taxes on their profit? Absolutely, but only when the tax code is changed and we can legally require payment of those taxes.


I am not against a social saftey net, I am against longterm welfare, I am also against people collecting welfare while they work for cash, drive a brand new 50K car, and watch a 60 inch flatscreen TV. I am frustrated that the disabled little old lady down the street gets $75 a month for food while two neighbors across the street get $500 a month to feed grown men that just won't work, or work for illegally for cash.  The children in these homes also get three free meals a day at school, on top of the $500 a month in foodstamps. This is the F'upd program than runs rampant in the US today.

Again Faye, sitting down in St. Johns County whining about why we the tax payers will not foot the $500 bill for your daughters' IUDs just proves how out of touch you are with reality.You want to make a real difference in peoples life? Clean up the system and start where your heart supposedly is. Stop welfare fraud and abuse and take away the tea party's poster children, while getting our aide to the right people for the right reasons, otherwise we suffer the consquences of the Rick Scotts of the world who will just attempt to cut everything.

Wow, you are such an enabler of the Rick Scott's of this world. And not just by your vote, it's by all the blind spouting of Republican propaganda, that has been factually been refuted and sourced by various people here.

If you cannot accept the LARGE culprits of our deficit, then there is nothing to talk about.

Keep bitching about the small time abusers while letting the BIG TIME abusers off the hook.

Way to go uptowngirl!!!

Penny wise and Pound foolish!!!!

I'm out of here.

[NotNow]

I am aware of the case and the opinions.  You are factually incorrect when you state that Madison's view was a minority view.  You are also incorrect when you state that I am the only living American who believes in Madison's view of the general welfare clause.  Even the opinions you quote, which favor a public works project, did not and would not now support the kind of programs and spending that is taking place.  The Founding Fathers were pretty smart guys and their writiing is available to anyone in quantity.  I encourage anyone to read for themselves and then try to tell me that ANY of today's spending would have been approved by them.

"To preserve independence...we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and Liberty, or profusion and servitude. ... The fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follow that, and in its turn wretchedness and oppression." --Thomas Jefferson

[BridgeTroll]

President Adams was also a proponent of the Alien and Sedition acts...

[BridgeTroll]

My bad... just noticed the Q.

[BridgeTroll]

Blood of Jesus?  Growing up Catholic I know what it is... I have no idea what you are refering to however...

[BridgeTroll]

Blood of Jesus?  Growing up Catholic I know what it is... I have no idea what you are refering to however...

Invoking someone or something else that is unrelated.

You seem to use it as a cover for all sins.

Ah... OK... Pat yourself on the back.  I learned it all from you.  Everyone recognizes you as the master... I am but an acolyte...

[NotNow]

I am aware of the case and the opinions.  You are factually incorrect when you state that Madison's view was a minority view.  You are also incorrect when you state that I am the only living American who believes in Madison's view of the general welfare clause.  Even the opinions you quote, which favor a public works project, did not and would not now support the kind of programs and spending that is taking place.  The Founding Fathers were pretty smart guys and their writiing is available to anyone in quantity.  I encourage anyone to read for themselves and then try to tell me that ANY of today's spending would have been approved by them.

"To preserve independence...we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and Liberty, or profusion and servitude. ... The fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follow that, and in its turn wretchedness and oppression." --Thomas Jefferson

Well I guess that that rapscallion, John Quincy Adams was just blowing it out his behind for fun then?

Let me reiterate his comments for you:

"On the 23rd of Feb., 1807, I offered, in the Senate of the United States, of which I was then a member, the first resolution, as I believe, that ever was presented to Congress, contemplating a general system of internal improvement.

I thought that Congress possessed the power of appropriating money to such improvement, and of authorizing the works necessary for making itâ€"subject always to the territorial rights of the several States in or through which the improvement is to be made, to be secured by the consent of their Legislatures, and to proprietary rights of individuals, to be purchased or indemnified.

I still hold the same opinions; and, although highly respecting the purity of intention of those who object, on constitutional grounds, to the exercise of this power, it is with heartfelt satisfaction that I perceive those objections gradually yielding to the paramount influence of the general welfare.

Already have appropriations of money to great objects of internal improvement been freely made; and I hope we shall both live to see the day, when the only question of our statesmen and patriots, concerning the authority of Congress to improve, by public works essentially beneficent, and beyond the means of less than national resources, the condition of our common country, will be how it ever could have been doubted."

  Just a little important point, don't ya think?

[finehoe]

NotNow, you do realize that there is a zero chance that your 18th-century fantasy version of the Constitution will ever be implemented, right?  

[NotNow]

StephenDare!- In your opinion.

finehoe- In your opinion.

[NotNow]

It is my opinion that the "general welfare" clause has been misused.  It is laughable to anyone with a lick of sense to propose that any of the Founding Fathers would approve of the disastrous course our current government is on (largely due to the abuse of that clause) or the use of their name or words to support that abomination of governance.  

You are both arguing for a system that is universally acknowledged is surely going to fail.  You both support politicians and political theories that would insure that failure.  I certainly hope that you are wrong, and that our elected government will save our form of governance and keep the Oaths that they swore when entering office.

Common sense.  In the end, the majority in this country that you routinly deride, will use theirs and reject the obvious (to most of us) failure of the last seventy years.

[NotNow]

Of course, just saying "Articles of Confederation" means absolutly nothing, does it?  We are discussing the misuse of the general welfare clause over the last seventy years.  Try to focus.

[NotNow]

It is my opinion that the "general welfare" clause has been misused.  It is laughable to anyone with a lick of sense to propose that any of the Founding Fathers would approve of the disastrous course our current government is on (largely due to the abuse of that clause) or the use of their name or words to support that abomination of governance. 

You are both arguing for a system that is universally acknowledged is surely going to fail.  You both support politicians and political theories that would insure that failure.  I certainly hope that you are wrong, and that our elected government will save our form of governance and keep the Oaths that they swore when entering office.

Common sense.  In the end, the majority in this country that you routinly deride, will use theirs and reject the obvious (to most of us) failure of the last seventy years.

Well as long as your read of the future is as accurate as your read of the past, I think we will be in pretty good shape.

And based on your read of the intentions of our Founding Fathers, I feel pretty comfortable with your disagreement.