Downtown advocates call for new master plan and vision

[iMarvin]

How hard is this!!! First and foremost, there needs to be people living downtown. The problem with that isnt anything other than, there is nowhere for them to live. Lots of empty buildings, and no residents. You put residents downtown, the rest will start to fall into place. (and no, I do not mean higher end crapola places like Berkman. I mean affordable lofts, workforce housing, ect. I guarantee that in this area, you can find 10,000 people who are willing to live downtown. Lets GET them there!!!

Lots of chickens and eggs talked about on this site. I agree people need to be there for anything to happen. A good question is where do you start for getting people to move downtown? When I look for a place to live, I want the essentials somewhere nearby: the grocery store, lots of places to eat out, and close to work. Is any of that in place? My perception is that it's not. Maybe I'm mistaken and it's not clear that it is.

Or maybe the cost of moving downtown needs to be discounted. Free rent for half a year? Who knows.

I firmly believe that there are 10,000 people who would move downtown right now. Some because they are advocates, some because they want access to the bus, some because they just want a place to live, and would live there if there were places.

It may not be 10,000 high earners, or 10,000 yuppies. Just 10,000 residents.

Once you have the people, everything else will fall in place.  You have a voting block, you have advocacy, you have a voice that will call for the very things you guys are all asking for.

I completely agree with everything you said. I didn't really think about it like that but that is 100% correct.

[Timkin]

I think we (MJ as a group and its members) could work together to contribute to and make a feasible Downtown Master Plan that would not only work.... it would blow out of the water everything that has surfaced since the 1970s "Master Plan"

But I think it all begins with finding a way to populate the downtown area, and giving them the vital needs (Grocery Stores, Clothing, Housewares , Etc)  within a reasonable distance.. Add to that a working transit system, and I honestly believe the rest would follow suit.

[ChriswUfGator]

I like my idea of appointing myswlf downtown pimp master supreme better.

[Timkin]

[cgaskins]

-Destroying Lavilla: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Destroying the streetcar network: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Building the Skyway to nowhere instead of viable light rail: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Tearing down over 25% of the historic housing in Springfield: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Downtown's awful policies for new businesses: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Lack of vision & uncontrolled sprawl until we've become the largest land mass is the US with a half empty core: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!

So yeah, in case you're wondering, I'm not really behind the "what's done is done" motto. Too much of that is why we're in such deep shit. It's a lazy attitude. Best to probably prevent these things from happening in the first place, don't ya think??

That isn't what I was saying.  I was saying to get the sand out of your vagina and move on.
Stay positive and work forward instead of dwelling on something that has already happened.  That's what I meant by "what's done is done."
What's that thing about milk our parents said?
Complaining about a courthouse being built isn't going to solve any problems or move the city forward.

I wasn't saying we should always say "fuck it" and just deal with what's going on.  "Oh, they built a rape factory in LaVilla?  What's done is done..."  No, you can't apply it to everything.  I was just trying to put an end to all of the angry people on this forum that have to hate on the big ass courthouse.  There are more important things to worry about.  Like bringing back streetcars, rebuilding LaVilla, using the SkyWay to connect other parts of the city to the core through other forms of transit, maintaining the historic importance and improving Springfield, improving downtown's policies on new business, and working with the cities leaders to give better vision so that we don't continue the sprawl and actually build up the core.

So yeah, if you want to complain about a courthouse for 40 more years and get nothing done because some dudes in the past made some bad choices, then be my guest.  I was simply trying to say...
THE BUILDING IS THERE!  IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD!  THERE ARE OTHER THINGS TO WORK ON!

So all of the bullshit you just said has NOTHING to do with what I was saying.

Talking about what the building should have looked like, if it should have been built at all, or discussing where the money should have been spent is pointless.  It's over.  That's the point I was trying to make.
This is the opposite of a lazy attitude, Mr Pee.  It's a pretty productive one.  Learn from history, don't dwell on it.

[JeffreyS]

I think pointing out the design flaws with the courthouse is something we should continue to keep in focus. It serves to help us not make the same mistakes in the future. It is also a great teaching tool to newbies on the site.  It helps us to illustrate to people who think downtown is always a waste of money that we can learn from our mistakes.  Pointing out who made the decisions and who influenced them serves to help people understand they have to engage if they do not want the GOB network to have all the say.

History even local and recent is important.

[Ocklawaha]

-Destroying Lavilla: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Destroying the streetcar network: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Building the Skyway to nowhere instead of viable light rail: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
So yeah, in case you're wondering, I'm not really behind the "what's done is done" motto. Too much of that is why we're in such deep shit. It's a lazy attitude. Best to probably prevent these things from happening in the first place, don't ya think??

Totally agree here.

"    Wanna buy a duck?

    A what?

    A duck!

    Does it quack?

    Of course it quacks, it’s a duck!"

How about wholesale slaughter of our streetcar barn, power house and street railway academy in Brooklyn...
Taking out the Atlantic and East Coast Terminal Railroad Station in La Villa along with everything else....
...and here's where it gets tricky...
"Building 15% of a Skyway, then going to 25% with monorail, then walking away wringing our hands because it doesn't work..."  ...and some people want to even tear THAT down!
Hey but cut us some slack, the streetcar system was taken care of by GENERAL MOTORS with the same ploy they used everywhere, local ownership, better service, NEW replaces OLD, and do it with ASSURED LOWER FARES...which BTW...NEVER HAPPENED, but best of all "FAIR DEALINGS WITH THE CITY!" HA!!

OCKLAWAHA

[Garden guy]

I pray for sensible leadership in Jacksonville.   

This is not something our city is noted for...

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Except that's exactly what the entire FBC is doing, it's just that their sensibilities are a little different than ours.

[mtraininjax]

We would be the best group to steer the process, but real comprehensive planning that would create a sustainable, dynamic city would be a larger group effort at best.

Uh, yeah sure. Check the history books, what is the last major transportation item to hit Jacksonville? Down with the tolls in the late 80s? New Fuller Warren bridge a few years ago? 9A? The most major item to hit Jacksonville was probably the Jaguars in the mid 90s.

I'll bet you that in 15 more years, we'll have a new 1-95 over the San Diego Road overpass, 9A will have merged to 295, the 9B will have been built, but there will still be no light rail and no comprehensive plan. Planning stands still in Jacksonville.

[Timkin]

Hope that you are wrong on the light rail and comprehensive planning.

[mtraininjax]

Hope that you are wrong on the light rail and comprehensive planning.

Well just keep dreaming on that note, and that someone will take up Annie Lytle before more boards are kicked off and people from the ground and interstate see it for what it really is, an eyesore that is in rescue by Burkhalter's.

[Timkin]

M-train.... your words  are garbage.. you cannot hurt my feelings.. If Annie Lytle ends up in a landfill , so be it.. You won.   

Lets just say that your all-knowing Messiah-like input is not agreed upon by most in the discussion..Not that you care... all that matters is M-train's opinion ,by you.    

Cheers

[mtraininjax]

your words  are garbage

Right back at ya! 

[Timkin]

LOL