Mayor Peyton Wikipedia.com Entry

[Linda]

Ivey,

It is because of our Constitution that we can ban the Confederate flag.  We can't yell "fire" in a crowded theatre of threaten to kill the President.  

The Swastika and the Confederate flag have distinct differences.  The Confederate flag existed only as a symbol of an enemy state of the United States.  We still haven't learned our lesson of the Oklahoma City bombing.  Anti-American symbols are dangerous and can affect human behavior.

[Ivey]

This is copied directly from the US Constitution (it's the First Amendment):

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Flying a flag is recognized with tons of precedents as freedom of speech.

Now, it's your turn...simply find me the words in the Constitution that outlaw flags of enemies of the United States, and we can get to work banning the flags of The Confederacy, Great Britain, Japan, Germany (yes, Linda, the Nazis were enemies of the United States), Italy, Korea, Spain and VietNam-every country we have ever been at war with.  

I understand your point that you view it as anti-American, but the US Constitution is all about limiting the power of government.  The government simply does not have the authority to tell anybody what flag they can fly.

[Linda]

Actually, the government can limit speech.  You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theatre and you can't display pornography.

The U.S. Constitution provides in pertinent part, “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort…”  "Adhering to" means to support or have a firm belief in.  Displaying a flag is the most fundamental type of support.  And the Confederate battle flag primarily existed as a tool to kill U.S. soldiers on the battlefield.

Notwithstanding the aforementioned, the Congress could ban the flag because of its secondary effects.  We have the right to bear arms, but we can't carry guns on a plane to protect the safety of other passengers.  One only has to look at Tim McViegh and the Oklahoma City bombing to see the effects of anti-American beliefs can have on human behavior.  

Please go to visit:  www.bantheconfederateflag.com

[J Rich]

You said:  "And the Confederate battle flag primarily existed as a tool to kill U.S. soldiers on the battlefield.'

The flag never killed anyone.  But I think you meant, "The Confederate battle flag was a symbol of those who killed U.S. soldiers on the battlefield."  You are forgetting though that the "U.S. flag was also a symbol of those who killed U.S. soldiers on the battlefield."

Remember...it a CIVIL war.  

[Tom]

Linda was right in indicating that it was a "tool" used to kill U.S. soldiers.  The flag was used as a guide to dress-right and make quick formations so that shots could be fired.  

You could be silly and say that cnnons never killed soldiers, cannon balls did.  Either way, I think you missed the point.

[Tom]

Also, the Confederate soldiers killed were not considered American soldiers.  In fact, General Lee wasn't granted his US citizenship back until 1976, posthumesly under President Ford.

[Jane]

I've seen the website and it make sense.  I guess it would depend on your views of the Confederate flag before viewing the site.

I thought the argument that selling Confederate memorabilia supports terrorism was compelling.  People often forget about the Oklahoma City bombing and who Tim McVeigh was.

I will boycott Gate Petroleum and anyone else who sells the Confederate flag.

Furthermore, Mayor Peyton's office referred to the political ad that depicts him with a Confederate flag as reprehensible.  Was it also reprehensible for his family owned business to sell items depicting the Confederate flag?  If not, I see some hypocracy.

[Ivey]

Linda, I will grant you that you have a well researched opinion.  You and I illustrate the classic difference between judicial liberalism (you found some text, and when you interpret this and define that, voila, you have "interpreted" the Constitution to say exactly what you wanted it to say) and judicial conservatism (I checked if the Constitution prohibits flying the flag of our enemies, and it wasn't there).  

Question: why is slavery illegal?  Is it illegal because somebody "interpreted" that some text in the Constitution means that slavery is illegal?  No, it's because of the 13th Amendment, which clearly states that slavery is illegal in these United States.

Congratulations that you cleverly found something in the Constitution that could possibly be interpreted to support what you want to do.  You aren't alone...there are lots and lots of people who subscribe to that same theory.  They are called liberals, and unfortunately for them, the Supreme Court just added two very young, very conservative justices.

I say again, the Constitution doesn't prohibit the flying of flags of our enemies.  Therefore, the government can't ban it.  If you want to ban it, try to get a Constitutional Amendment like the anti-flag burning crowd is doing.

[David]

Anyone who finds the Confederate flag offensive should boycott Gate Petroleum.  The company makes itself look backwards and dull-minded by selling novlety items bearing the Confederate flag.

[David]

Since when is wanting to ban the celebration of treason a liberal issue.  Its a conservative issue.  The ACLU would not support a ban of the Confederate flag, but many veterans groups would.  It was a veteran's group, the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR), that originally tried to get the flag band in the early 1900's.

[Rick]

Having clean bathrooms was a reason to stop at Gate gas stations.  Selling the Confederate flag is a very good reason to stop supporting a gas station, even if they have clean restrooms.

I won't stop at Gate anymore.

[Blaine McDonald]

The Confederate battle flag is inherently anti-American.  The flag only existed as a symbol of an army that wanted to break up the United States.

We have a California man who is being tried for treason for making an al Qeda video.  Displaying a Confederate battle flag and stating, "the South will rise again", is tantamount to wearing an al Qeda t-shirt and shouting death to America.

[J]

Why did this get posted to Metro Jacksonville anyway?  Seems like an awkward attempt at a political smear and is out of place for the forum.

[Linda]

What do you mean a political smear?  If a company sells Confederate memorabilia, they deserve to be criticized.

Are you defending the sale of the Confederate flag?  Selling novelty items depicting the Confederate flag is against the law in the state of Florida.

Florida Statute 256.051 - Improper use or mutilation of state or Confederate flag or emblem prohibited.-- Reads, in pertinent part:

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to copy, print, publish, or otherwise use the flag or state emblem of Florida, or the flag or emblem of the Confederate States, or any flag or emblem used by the Confederate States or the military or naval forces of the Confederate States at any time within the years 1860 to 1865, both inclusive, for the purpose of advertising, selling, or promoting the sale of any article of merchandise whatever within this state.

So please explain how revealing that a company is behaving badly and exhibiting anti-American sentiments is a political smear?

[mark5]

its just a damn flag. get over it. this whole discussion is a waste of time. the problem with you people is that you cant forget the past....its the past. give it a break...and forget that crap about remembering the past to learn from mistakes. if we still have the problems then theyre in the present! the point is racism still exists and it always will because we are not all the same and some people are ignorant and intolerant of people who are different. let them isolate themselves as the world is diversified, and GET OVER IT!!!