Did you get your bill from COJ?

[Lunican]

The Florida Times-Union

May 5, 2008

Property size, type help set city's new fees

By TIA MITCHELL,
The Times-Union

Most Jacksonville property owners have received their bills for the city's new solid waste and stormwater fees. The notices were mailed out Wednesday.

The new fees were proposed by Mayor John Peyton and approved by the City Council as a way to raise additional revenue in the face of state-mandated property-tax reductions. A separate city fee also was added to JEA bills.

Friday city officials reported a flood of inquiries from home-owners about their bills and about the new fees. Here are some of the most frequently asked questions, taken from the city's Web site.

Full Story:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/050508/met_275501208.shtml

[Driven1]

Not everyone got the new bills.  Only those who own property - and were ALREADY carrying the largest portion of the tax burden in this county.  Renters & vegabonds still pay $0 for storm water drainage and waste removal. 

This was a bone-headed move by Peyton & Co.  A slap in the face after he has squandered millions due to his ignorance.

I'm now waiting for our next "Back to the Future" mayoral candidate who will run on the platform of removing these stupid fees.

[Lunican]

Renters pay property tax via their rent. Vagabonds don't have a house that creates storm water runoff.

[Lunican]

Fees vs. Taxes

The Orange County Taxpayers Association (OCTax) likes fees better than taxes. We prefer that the users of a service, rather than the general public, pay for the service.

• Fees are paid only by users of a service. Examples are toll roads, permits, licenses, public parking, small claims court, entertainment. Motor vehicle fuel “taxes” which are spent on roads are actually fees; motor vehicle fuel taxes that are diverted to general governmental services are true taxes.

• Taxes are paid by the general public for general governmental services, provided for the general public’s benefit, and for which it is infeasible for the users of the services to pay. Examples are jails, police and fire protection, municipal and superior courts, voter registration and elections.

Here is a summary of the differences between a tax and a fee.

Tax
1.  Pays for any government service. Nexus between payer and service not required.
2.  General public gets the primary benefit.
3.  Payment is mandatory.
4.  May be levied in any amount.
5.  Levied equally on all similar payers.

Fee
1.  Pays for a specific service,to regulate payer.  Nexus required.
2.  Payer gets the primary benefit.
3.  Payment is contingent on use of  service, or choice to engage in regulated activity.
4.  Covers only cost of the service:  construction, maintenance,  regulation, permitting, inspecting.
5.  Levied in proportion to impact or  extent of activity.

http://www.octax.org/feesvstaxes.htm

An additional 'feature' of fees is that they are not income tax deductible the way property tax is.

[Driven1]

a sales tax is more like a fee.  payment is not mandatory.  can be earmarked to pay for a specific gov't service.  the amount levied varies on the items purchased.  not levied equally because not everyone spends the same.

[Driven1]

Renters pay property tax via their rent. Vagabonds don't have a house that creates storm water runoff.

you are only marginally correct.  in many, many cases, RENTERS don't even cover the entire debt service (which includes mortgage, insurance, taxes and now fees like this).  VEGABONDS may move from one house to the next (thereby being lease-breaking RENTERS many times). 

[Ocklawaha]

Now this is funny!

Not everyone got the new bills.  Only those who own property - and were ALREADY carrying the largest portion of the tax burden in this county.  Renters & vegabonds still pay $0 for storm water drainage and waste removal. 

This was a bone-headed move by Peyton & Co.  A slap in the face after he has squandered millions due to his ignorance.

I'm now waiting for our next "Back to the Future" mayoral candidate who will run on the platform of removing these stupid fees.

As I currently rent, and probably will for a couple of years and I find that "perfect home" or the COJ runs me out of town, one of the highpoints of my day is allowing the tubs to fill to the emergency drain and turn on the flower bed sprinklers until the street floods... I enjoy that sort of thing! I just know some poor Schmo is paying my bill!

Ocklawaha

[JeffreyS]

The only thing the Storm water fee has in relation to our Storm water is the name.  The fee goes into the general budget and is therefor a tax.  Our storm water funding comes out of the general budget but by that logic it could have been the Mayor's transportation fee of anything else. It is just a tax from a Mayor who ran on  a no new taxes platform that lowers the overall tax burden of people with million dollar houses and raises the overall tax burden of anyone with less than a two hundred thousand dollar home. 

But hey at least he was able to come in and make Jacksonville's budget run efficiently  as he promised with that great business background.

[Driven1]

As I currently rent, and probably will for a couple of years and I find that "perfect home" or the COJ runs me out of town, one of the highpoints of my day is allowing the tubs to fill to the emergency drain and turn on the flower bed sprinklers until the street floods... I enjoy that sort of thing! I just know some poor Schmo is paying my bill!

Ocklawaha

but be careful...you DO pay the sewer bill (presumably) 

[Driven1]

The only thing the Storm water fee has in relation to our Storm water is the name.  The fee goes into the general budget and is therefor a tax.  Our storm water funding comes out of the general budget but by that logic it could have been the Mayor's transportation fee of anything else. It is just a tax from a Mayor who ran on  a no new taxes platform that lowers the overall tax burden of people with million dollar houses and raises the overall tax burden of anyone with less than a two hundred thousand dollar home. 

But hey at least he was able to come in and make Jacksonville's budget run efficiently  as he promised with that great business background.

well stated.

[Lunican]

a sales tax is more like a fee.  payment is not mandatory.  can be earmarked to pay for a specific gov't service.  the amount levied varies on the items purchased.  not levied equally because not everyone spends the same.

Property tax is also not mandatory with that logic. If you don't want to pay property tax then don't own property.

Come to think of it, you can avoid taxes completely by not making or spending any money at all!

[Lunican]

you are only marginally correct.  in many, many cases, RENTERS don't even cover the entire debt service (which includes mortgage, insurance, taxes and now fees like this).  VEGABONDS may move from one house to the next (thereby being lease-breaking RENTERS many times). 

The instances where the collected rent does not cover the debt service are simply a result of poorly conceived and executed business plans. Don't worry though, capitalism always weeds out the weak so you've got nothing to worry about... 

[Driven1]

Come to think of it, you can avoid taxes completely by not making or spending any money at all!

unfortunately, there is a large portion of the our population that just does 1/2 of that equation.  and with consumer spending accounting for 72% of US GDP, it sure ain't the latter 1/2.

[Driven1]

Don't worry though, capitalism always weeds out the weak so you've got nothing to worry about... 

i know...i love that about capitalism.  ayn rand would say that that makes it evil.  but i love it. 

[Ocklawaha]

Tipi's, Therein lays the answer!

Ocklawaha