US Senator Bill Nelson Spearheads the Push to Save Florida HSR

[thelakelander]

The direct jobs (if allowed to move forward) would not be state jobs.  They would be through the private entity that has agreed to fund O&M for their system.

Btw, one of the HSR groups has Talgo as a part of their team.  They have expressed an interest in moving their railcar manufacturing operations to the state, if given the opportunity to operate the system.  Such a facility would also produce equipment for additional HSR orders throughout the country as the national network is constructed.  This would be an example of long term well paying jobs created by the project.  This thing is so much larger than Tampa and Orlando.  We shouldn't lock in with tunnel vision without first attempting to grasp the larger picture.

As for ridership numbers, my response is to stop guessing and open the bidding to the private sector.  They'll run their own numbers and make modifications to plans to ensure a feasible project worth their investment.  If its not feasible, then nothing will happen.  No one had a problem with doing this for the Outer Beltway.  What's the harm in doing it for this HSR project?

[tufsu1]

Also, long term jobs you're overlooking include those that will be created by manufacturing rail cars, maintaining system infrastructure, employment at rail stations, the railyard, support services for operations and through transit oriented development around station sites.

exactly...several of the rail manufacturers have stated their interest in setting up shop in Florida....to build rail cars for all over the US...but why set up shop here if we're not interested?

[thelakelander]

Another example of why the project should be put out to bid.....

Doubts and controversy over Florida's high-speed rail venture aren't deterring high-powered European and Asian companies from lining up to bid on the project. Talgo Inc. figures to be at the head of the queue.

Eight global consortiums have expressed interest in building and operating the proposed 84-mile line connecting Tampa and Orlando.

One of the leading contenders, Florida Mobility Partners, is headed by Talgo, a Spanish-headquartered train operator that is expanding operations in America.

"This is a most important project for us. The number of trains involved is not very large, but it's significant because it's the first in the United States," Talgo America President Antonio Perez told Sunshine State News in an exclusive interview.

"The U.S. has large potential, and this is important from a strategic standpoint," he said.

Talgo's prospective competitors see the Florida project in much  the same way -- a beachhead for future business as the Obama administration pushes more high-speed rail ventures.

Like Talgo's team, the prospective bidders rely heavily on expertise from outside the United States. Among the consortiums expressing interest to the state:


Bechtel, Amtrak and France’s SNCF America.
Parsons and South Korea’s Samsung, Korail, KRTC, GRDC, KRRI, Korean Consortium and Korea Railway Association and Hyundai Rotem USA.
Florida High Speed Rail LLC; UK's Balfour Beatty Rail; United States’ HDR, Parsons Brinckerhoff, PCL Civil Constructors and Lane Construction; Japan’s Mitsubishi International, Central Japan Railway Co., Sumitomo Corp. and Japan Bank for International Cooperation.
Spain’s ACS Infrastructure Development and Dragados USA; United States’ T.Y. Lin International and GE Transportation; China’s TSDI, CSR SF China and CRCC China; and Brazil’s Odebrecht Infrastructure.
Florida Rail Ventures: Germany’s Siemens; France’s Veolia; Spain’s Global Via USA and FCC; United States’ Granite and Jacobs; and Sweden’s Skanska.
France’s Alstom and Vinci Concessions; Spain’s OHL USA; United States’ PBS&J, AECOM, Hubbard Construction and Archer Western Contractors; and UK's Virgin Group and Virgin Rail Group.
An incomplete consortium comprising United States’ Kiewit, Canada’s Bombardier and UK’s National Express.

Talgo's Perez believes that his Spain-centric team -- which includes contractors Ferrovial, Elecnor, Invensys Rail (UK), Prince (U.S.) and concessionaires Soares Da Costa and Cintra -- is best equipped to land the Florida job.

In America, Talgo trains have provided passenger service in the Pacific Northwest since 1994, and operate in other scattered regions around the country.

Prince, a lead contractor in the Talgo consortium, is headed by John D. Watson, a Florida State University graduate. The company has been involved in several transportation projects in the state, including I-595 expansions in Broward County.

As for high-speed rail, Talgo team partner Ferrovial Agroman has laid a quarter of Spain's high-speed track.

"Our group has lots of experience in transportation projects," Perez said. "We're used to taking risks in ridership that not all others are willing to take."

Talgo's Perez says his company is committed to the U.S. market. Last year, the firm opened a plant in Milwaukee to manufacture trains sets, but when Wisconsin canceled its high-speed rail plans, Talgo announced it would likely close or move the plant by 2012. Perez said Florida could be the site for building America's new generation of high-speed trains.

"We haven't determined where the high-speed rail trains would be built. We're open to looking elsewhere for a new facility," he said.

www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/talgo-race-florida-high-speed-train

For people to claim Florida needs jobs, it seems like we're doing everything to keep job creation from actually happening.

[thelakelander]

More info from South Florida....

Feds set Feb. 25 deadline for fast-rail deal

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood gave Florida a week to come up with a way to salvage the high-speed train that would link Orlando with Tampa or he will send $2.4 billion in federal stimulus money elsewhere.

LaHood set the Feb. 25 deadline after meeting briefly Thursday with five Democrats from Florida in the office of Sen. Bill Nelson in Washington.

They told LaHood they might try to arrange for the Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority, Amtrak or the Tri-Rail commuter operation in South Florida to take responsibility for the high-speed train after Gov. Rick Scott rejected the offer of the Obama administration to pay for 90 percent of the $2.7 billion project.

The catch with any of those plans, however, is that they still might need Scott's approval. And the governor was skeptical of the idea.

"I don't believe we should be trying to push our counties into taking an irresponsible act in taking the risk of a high-speed-rail project," Scott said after emerging from a tour of the Florida Lottery offices Thursday.

Asked specifically whether he would say no to such a deal, Scott refused to answer.

full article: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-high-speed-rail-fate-20110217,0,3034072.story

[mtraininjax]

Lake - Have you not been following what State Farm is asking for in the State of Florida in terms of their rate increase and the REASONS why they are asking for such a large premium increase??

Aren't the soil conditions of our states different?

Sinkholes? Draining the aquifer? Are earthquakes more dangerous than a sinkhole? Doesn't the train derail just the same? The insurance requirements along the Orlando to Tampa route are going to be HUGE compared to where they were before the Insurance companies asked for premium increases. And watch as State Farm gets a larger share, all will be asking for it.

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2011/02/18/187036.htm

[mtraininjax]

"The U.S. has large potential, and this is important from a strategic standpoint," he said.

Fine, let California or New York be the test rabbit for the plan, let them build the HSR, and we can watch and see the mistakes they make. Who says you have to be first in this race?

Scott did say he was not against HSR, he said it was bad timing and not the right thing to do when counties are struggling  (to paraphrase a bit).

[thelakelander]

This isn't about being first in a race.  This isn't about being a Republican or Democrat or liking/disliking Obama either.  This is about taking advantage of economic opportunity, improving our transportation network and job creation in an economically depressed state.  I'll continue to say the same non partisan thing I've been stating on this HSR topic ever since private companies began saying they'll assume the State's financial risks. 

What's the harm in putting it out to bid and seeing what the results are?  The private sector claims they'll assume all financial risks, build and operate the thing.  Give them a chance to bid and put their money where their mouth is.  Unless, we're afraid that some group will actually step up to the plate.  My guess is that if some group steps up, they'll modify the final product in a manner that makes it more feasible for all.

[mtraininjax]

The private sector claims they'll assume all financial risks, build and operate the thing.

Nelson and Mica should cut their losses and focus on building consensus projects with the Governor. All this running around behind is back will do nothing but set future funding projects back further.

[JeffreyS]

Governor Scott has made some enemies with this that will undoubtedly cost Florida other opportunities.  I will not be surprised to see Savanna's port become a favorite with the current administration.

[FayeforCure]

John Mica is the true Rat Rail supporter!

As much as he was against Scott turning down the $2.4 billion for HSR, and even joined with key Democrats at a Press Conference after he was absent from the actual Democratic meeting, he is now working his own little plan to save ONLY the Mickey's Flying Train portion of Florida's HSR.

As a commenter says:

Breaking News! Congressman “For” Mica saves Disney High speed rail plan! Problem is with rail speed at 100 MPH people will arrive and be “dizzy” at the Magic KingDumb before they depart at whorelando international airport!

http://www.postonpolitics.com/2011/02/mica-crafts-rail-run-around-scott/

It's hilarious!!

As tufsu1 knows, I gave credit to Mica for speaking up unquivocably for Florida HSR after Scott's reckless turndown of $2.4 billion for Florida, but this new-fangled idea is just supporting the Rat Rail part and doesn't even come close to being a "national first" for HSR in the US.

[yapp1850]

don't be surprise as  amtrak fec line be  funded because 118 million in rick scott budget for that line

[thelakelander]

John Mica is the true Rat Rail supporter!

As much as he was against Scott turning down the $2.4 billion for HSR, and even joined with key Democrats at a Press Conference after he was absent from the actual Democratic meeting, he is now working his own little plan to save ONLY the Mickey's Flying Train portion of Florida's HSR.

Well Mica's plan to build HSR only from Orlando's airport to Disney has already been shot down by the feds.  Its all or nothing.

Federal officials balk at scaled-back plan for Florida high-speed rail

WASHINGTON â€" Federal officials on Saturday balked at a scaled-back plan for high-speed rail proposed by a powerful Florida congressman, giving hope to advocates for an entire Orlando-to-Tampa line but underscoring the efforts' shaky status.

U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, wants to dramatically shrink the project to an Orlando International Airport to Walt Disney World link.

Chairman of the House transportation committee, Mica contends it's the best way to get the project rolling and overcome the problem presented by Gov. Rick Scott's rejection of $2.4 billion in federal funding.

But Sen. Bill Nelson spoke with U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood on Saturday and said later that federal officials are saying "no" to Mica's plan, which would be limited to 21 miles in the Orlando area. The idea was to connect large metropolitan areas and quickly move people between them.

full article: http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article1152714.ece

[Mattius92]

That just makes me want to smack Mica... Anyways that plan is absolutely stupid, John Mica needs to forget about re-election after some stupid move like that. You DON'T need a HSR to Disney, if they want that then have them expand their Monorail, gosh the nerve. I think of the two cities, Orlando has their end of the HSR messed up the most.

Why not link the Sunrail with the HSR...? Freaking retards.

[thelakelander]

Sunrail was supposed to link with HSR.  A line to the airport was in the works when it was thought that HSR had a chance of becoming a reality.  Out of all the cities involved with the original HSR line, Orlando was the one that had its act in order.

[Mattius92]

mhmm, note taken. If this ever becomes reality they do need to link the two, because if they are going to miss the Orlando metro area, they need to at least have a link to the metro area. No one wants to drive to the airport to ride a train, they go there to ride an airplane.