US Senator Bill Nelson Spearheads the Push to Save Florida HSR

[FayeforCure]

Republican lawmakers who support Florida HSR say it's unlawful for Scott to turn down the federal funding because $300 million of state funding was already appropriated under our previous Governor Charlie Crist.

But Senator Bill Nelson as well as John Mica would prefer to get state government out of the way and completely forego the state funding portion altogether by having private companies foot that part of the cost:

U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson was in Washington to meet with the federal transportation secretary, and members of Florida's congressional delegation.

"A metropolitan planning organization in Tampa and a rail authority in South Florida have volunteered to step forward in place of the state to accept oversight of the bullet-train project and the $2.4 billion from Uncle Sam. Lawyers are researching how to do it," Nelson said.

Already other states like New York and California have said they would take the funding that was planned for Florida.

Florida lawmakers have been given one week to put together a deal that would keep the federal funds from going to other states.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/february/209079/Senator-Bill-Nelson-looks-to-move-ahead-on-high-speed-rail-without-Governor-Rick-Scott

[JeffreyS]

Of course it was unlawful . I'm sure that was part of the appeal to governor scott .

[FayeforCure]

Of course it was unlawful . I'm sure that was part of the appeal to governor scott .

lol, I guess Scott likes to live on the edge like all crooks do.

[mtraininjax]

Good article in the Washington Post on HSR:

http://reason.org/blog/show/washington-post-writes-off-high-spe

Even politicians are seeing that HSR may not be as valuable as other investments.

[mtraininjax]

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Critics are bad-mouthing Scott’s decision, arguing that the least he could have done was wait to see if any of the private-sector firms wanting to make proposals would have guaranteed to absorb any and all cost overruns and to sign a long-term agreement guaranteeing no operating subsidies. That has to be a pipedream.

On cost overruns, the state capital has been overrun with high-speed rail lobbyists the last few months, and I’m sure the Governor’s office and the Florida Department of Transportation have a pretty good idea, by now, how much (and how little) actual risk the private sector would be willing to take on.

And no matter what an overly-optimistic company might agree to, if its special-purpose entity for Florida high-speed rail got in seriously over its head and walked away from the project after spending, say $3 billion (including the feds’ $2.4 billion), what options would the state then have? With no way of repaying the feds’ moneyâ€"now turned into concrete and steelâ€"it would have no choice but to spend state tax money finishing the project and then subsidizing its operations.

And on operating subsidies, the much larger California high-speed rail project has been testing that premise for the past two years. The ballot measure the voters approved in November 2008 to authorize $9 billion in general-obligation bonds for that project spelled out in black and white that voter approval was conditional on there being zero operating subsidies. But the private firms interested in building and operating the high-speed rail project are telling the California High-Speed Rail Authority that they cannot get financing unless the state provides them with “revenue guarantees.” And what, precisely, is that? If the traffic and revenue on the rail line are below the forecasts on which the financing was based, the state would agree to make up the difference. In other words, operating subsidies. If the private sector required that protection in order to fund the California project, whose ridership potential is far higher than that in Florida, there is no way they would go unprotected in Florida.

So Gov. Rick Scott was on firm ground in judging that the risks to Florida taxpayers were simply too great if this project went forward. He made the right decision.

[thelakelander]

Comparing California's proposal to Florida's is apples and oranges.  Florida should put the thing out to bid and see what happens.

[tufsu1]

I can assure you that there are several consortiums that are very interested....these groups are comprised of very large teams (one has 7 firms)...once the RFP is released, they will each do their own internal studies....if the numbers don't add up, they won't submit a bid

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I can assure you that there are several consortiums that are very interested....these groups are comprised of very large teams (one has 7 firms)...once the RFP is released, they will each do their own internal studies....if the numbers don't add up, they won't submit a bid

So where have all these interested consortiums been over the past 14 months or so?  Knowing that the deadline was this month, they should have had their studies done so they could seize the opportunity if the deal started to fall to the wayside. 

Or maybe they have and there's a reason no one is jumping at the idea right now.

Let me ask you and Lake this:  If the project goes through, and the remainder is backed by private investors, how long would they be before seeing a return on their investment if at all?  A decade? 

Is there a profit generating railway anywhere in the US that they could model this off of?

[tufsu1]

I can assure you that there are several consortiums that are very interested....these groups are comprised of very large teams (one has 7 firms)...once the RFP is released, they will each do their own internal studies....if the numbers don't add up, they won't submit a bid

So where have all these interested consortiums been over the past 14 months or so?  Knowing that the deadline was this month, they should have had their studies done so they could seize the opportunity if the deal started to fall to the wayside.  

they've been meeting with FDOT for months...in fact, 1600 people showed up at the Orlando Convention Center in November to discuss the project...than the industry met with FDOT in early December to provide thoughts on the bidding process.

Fact is, there is no deadline this month....the plan was for FDOT to fionish its updated revenue/ridership studies this month (which Gov. Scott refused to wait on)....than that information would be supplied to interested parties as part of the RFP, which was expected out by mid-March.

The first step in the RFP process is actually for interested parties to submit qualifications...than FDOT would shortlist...the shortliosted firms would then sharpen their pencils and by fall submit a Design-Build-Operate-Maintain-Finance proposal.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

This makes no sense. 

I thought the entire FLHSR was contingent on getting the bulk of the money from the feds with the private sector to make up the difference.  If that isn't the case, then I'm all ears, but seems to me that FL just turned down the proposal, with the exception of a few who are pushing really hard at the thirteenth hour. 

My biggest concern is why aren't the private finances and plans in more order if they have known that we were getting the money to do the project?  Why are they playing the wait and see what the governor does game? 

I'm not against it TUFSU, but we aren't ready to hit the ground running, and I see a lot of that 'money' getting tied up in more planning and studies and not enough actual 'work.'  As we all know from local experience, this is exactly how a 3B federally funded job becomes a 7B job that the state is on the hook for the rest.  The private companies will make their money in studies (that they've probably already completed) and bail out mid-stream.

[tufsu1]

Here are the interested teams...some really big names on this list

http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/storage/interested-firms/HighSpeedRailTeams_111210.pdf

The private sector teams haved been getting organized for over a year...but they aren't going to spend hundered of thousands of dollars of their own money (yes it will be that much) doing their full due diligence until the project is advertised....yes, the Feds have agreed to fund 90% lof the project, but the state is still the partner...so until the state releases a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) or a Request for Proposals (RFP) there is nothing "official" for the interested teams to respond to.

btw, the website also offers a quick 2-page fact sheet....it is good reading folks

http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/storage/pi-docs/HSRProjectSummary121410.pdf

[FayeforCure]

This makes no sense.  

My biggest concern is why aren't the private finances and plans in more order if they have known that we were getting the money to do the project?  Why are they playing the wait and see what the governor does game?  

I'm not against it TUFSU, but we aren't ready to hit the ground running, and I see a lot of that 'money' getting tied up in more planning and studies and not enough actual 'work.'  

Actually the bidding process had been stopped in its tracks as soon as Rick Scott was elected. I've been looking for that short article that I came across in Dec. I think, but unfortunately my google searches haven't unearthed it yet.

The point is that Scott didn't want the bidding process to proceed because he KNEW full well that private companies were willing to take on the risk with a federal hand-out of $2.4 billion. It's a well-known economic principle that the first one in the US market, will have the market cornered. These companies want to continue on to Miami and Jax!!!

Lets help make it happen:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Floridians-for-High-Speed-Rail-and-against-Governor-Rick-Scotts-Decision/142608585802230?sk=wall

[mtraininjax]

If the private sector required that protection in order to fund the California project, whose ridership potential is far higher than that in Florida, there is no way they would go unprotected in Florida.

Again, the numbers speak for themselves. Forget Billions in $$$, forget jobs, if the thing cannot pay for itself in California, there is no way this boondoggle can pay for itself here in Florida. I am shocked no one has an issue with an 84 mile project at 2.5 billion to create 40,000 temporary jobs. Few if any which would impact Jacksonville.

[thelakelander]

Aren't they California and Florida projects two different forms of HSR?  Does the California project already have the necessary ROW?  Aren't the soil conditions of our states different?  All of these things can be huge significant factors in terms of cost and feasibility, which makes a direct comparison of the two, useless.  Instead of making a long term decision either way, it won't hurt us to actually bid the thing out to the private sector and see what the results are.  I fail to see how that hurts Florida either way.

Also, long term jobs you're overlooking include those that will be created by manufacturing rail cars, maintaining system infrastructure, employment at rail stations, the railyard, support services for operations and through transit oriented development around station sites.

[civil42806]

Also, long term jobs you're overlooking include those that will be created by manufacturing rail cars, maintaining system infrastructure, employment at rail stations, the railyard, support services for operations and through transit oriented development around station sites.

Almost all of those will be state jobs though, manufacturing rail cars may create a few short term jobs on occasion, but rail cars dont wear out often.  All the other jobs will be state run, meaning directly out of your pocket.  The major problem I have with it is the ludicrous ridership projections anywhere from 2.4 to 3 million a year.  Thats not going to happen and everyone knows it.  Plus the state gets stuck with this turkey and can never get rid of it, sort of like the skyway express.  I don't have a problem with rail where it makes sense, but sorry tampa to orlando is just plain stupid