Florida High Speed Rail Option and Elimination

[tufsu1]

So where is the private money? Scott is right, if a private company is not willing to spend 208 million on this, why shoud the state risk overruns, and possibly be on the hook for the 2 billion if it goes sadly wrong. That 2 billion could dredge a lot of ports.

that's the issue...the private companies need something to react to....which is why FDOT was going to release an RFP/RFQ shortly.

at least 8 consortiums have expressed interest in funding the remaining $280 million plus any cost overruns...they also understand that FDOT wants assurances that the private entities cover any losses through 2035.

as with the outer beltway, those companies would then have done their own internal ridership/revenue studies...and if the numbers didn't work out, they wouldn't submit...had the state received no qualified bids, then scrap the project.

[tufsu1]

more reaction

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/senators-call-scotts-decision-short-sighted-tragic-and-technically-not-allowed

also read the blogs to the right on the page...bottom line, this is far from over

[mtraininjax]

I like Scott's reaction, he is taking in the information and data available to him, not the inflated pumped up numbers from the special interests, and make a gut call. Its refreshing since Crist was little more than a limp noodle.

[yapp1850]

us dot is talking about going over scotts head and have some type of partership with the cities or some other way without state support

[tufsu1]

I like Scott's reaction, he is taking in the information and data available to him, not the inflated pumped up numbers from the special interests, and make a gut call. Its refreshing since Crist was little more than a limp noodle.

not exactly...he took the information provided by the Reason Foundation (they too are a special interest)...read their report, then read his press release.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/rick-scotts-rail-feasibility-study-appears-be-report-libertarian-reason-foundation

of course its even worse...when the Reason Foundation learned that private sector would be taking on the extra cost and risk, they said go ahead.

again, I have no problem if FL leaves it up to the private sector and they decide the risk is too great!

[mtraininjax]

I have no problem if FL leaves it up to the private sector and they decide the risk is too great!

If the private sector saw the opportunity to make money, why wouldn't they have already built the dang thing? Its dead without Federal/State funding.

[mtraininjax]

us dot is talking about going over scotts head and have some type of partership with the cities or some other way without state support

That will set a nice precedent with the other 49 states.....Remember we still have a healthcare bill in limbo, then the State of Florida opted out of the Federal Medicare program as well in today's paper. Pretty radical changes so soon....and my bet is we still have more to see.

[NthDegree]

Wendell Scott and Robert Poole?  Not what I would call unbiased, independent or balanced.   

[FayeforCure]

I like Scott's reaction, he is taking in the information and data available to him, not the inflated pumped up numbers from the special interests, and make a gut call. Its refreshing since Crist was little more than a limp noodle.

Yeah, yeah so much for gut calls!! I remember Bush's gut call that landed us in two extremely expensive wars. Real gutsy expecially from someone who never served, and Scott the tax payer robber is no better.

[BridgeTroll]

How much money did the Feds "give" Jacksonville to build the Skyway?  How many jobs did it produce during construction?  Was this part of the local argument in favor of the Skyway's construction?

[thelakelander]

What a pure dumbass.... I ran across this in another transportation discussion board.  Did this guy really think the federal money would be reallocated for I-4 road construction after what just happened in Wisconsin and Ohio?  

Scott said he informed U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood of his decision earlier Wednesday.

Scott wrote to Hood that he did not believe high-speed rail would "create any meaningful" jobs beyond the construction phase and would not "economically sustainable" over the long haul.

Scott said he instead wants federal dollars to "invest in higher yield" projects like "widening Interstate 4 in Orange County."

Republican governors in Ohio and Wisconsin have also rejected high-speed rail plans.

LaHood Responds To Scott's Letter

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood released the following statement Wednesday:

"We are extremely disappointed by Governor Rick Scott's decision to walk away from the job creating and economic development benefits of high speed rail in Florida. We worked with the governor to make sure we eliminated all financial risk for the state, instead requiring private businesses competing for the project to assume cost overruns and operating expenses. It is projects like these that will help America out-build our global competitors and lay the foundation needed to win the future. This project could have supported thousands of good-paying jobs for Floridians and helped grow Florida businesses, all while alleviating congestion on Florida's highways. Nevertheless, there is overwhelming demand for high speed rail in other states that are enthusiastic to receive Florida's funding and the economic benefits it can deliver, such as manufacturing and construction jobs, as well as private development along its corridors."

For those believing this dedicated money could be reallocated for statewide Amtrak service or anything else, good luck with finding the funds to move those projects forward.....

I've been as critical as anyone on the way this project was being planned, but it made all the sense in the world to allow private companies the chance to assume the risks, bid and run their own numbers, making minor modifications, etc. before throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[thelakelander]

How much money did the Feds "give" Jacksonville to build the Skyway?  How many jobs did it produce during construction?  Was this part of the local argument in favor of the Skyway's construction?

The feds paid $184 million for the skyway demonstration project.  We have no one to blame but ourselves for not attempting to integrate it with the rest of the transportation network and surrounding land uses.  In other words, we're the reason the O&M numbers are so high and revenue is so low.  A simple change in how we operate can result in big cost savings.  Seriously, at some point, we've got to be held accountable for our own actions on projects like these.

[BridgeTroll]

How much money did the Feds "give" Jacksonville to build the Skyway?  How many jobs did it produce during construction?  Was this part of the local argument in favor of the Skyway's construction?

The feds paid $184 million for the skyway demonstration project.  We have no one to blame but ourselves for not attempting to integrate it with the rest of the transportation network and surrounding land uses.  In other words, we're the reason the O&M numbers are so high and revenue is so low.  A simple change in how we operate can result in big cost savings.  Seriously, at some point, we've got to be held accountable for our own actions on projects like these.

No doubt... that is why I am asking the questions.  Obviously there is no comparison of the size of the projects.  What about percentage of funding?  Was the "free money" argument used in Jax as it is being used for the HSR?

[thelakelander]

Ock will know better than I would, but I believe it was.  The major difference in the case of Florida's HSR is that the private sector was willing to pick up the state's tab, assume all risks and operate it for the chance to position themselves in the U.S. market.  That was not the case with the skyway.

[dougskiles]

The feds paid $184 million for the skyway demonstration project.  We have no one to blame but ourselves for not attempting to integrate it with the rest of the transportation network and surrounding land uses.  In other words, we're the reason the O&M numbers are so high and revenue is so low.  A simple change in how we operate can result in big cost savings.  Seriously, at some point, we've got to be held accountable for our own actions on projects like these.

That simple change is already taking place.  I ride the Skyway an average of 2-3 days per week.  In the last month I have noticed a significant increase in ridership.  I'm not making this up.  No matter what time of day, most cars have 4 people sitting and 2 standing.  I asked a friend at JTA the reason, and he told me that the bus routes have been changed to stop at Kings Avenue and FSCJ.  So now people who were previously riding a bus through downtown are taking the Skyway.  This shows exactly how the Skyway can be effectively used as part of a larger system.  I expect that there will be a fuel savings by not having to run the buses downtown and the headway times should improve along the routes outside of downtown.  Not to mention that a pedestrian on the sidewalk isn't breathing in as much diesel exhaust.  Great decision, JTA.