City Salaries - Who Makes the most

[ChriswUfGator]

The engineers should be getting paid, they are actually the one's doing the work that makes the decisions, and implements the same.

CEO, not so much. Why should they make more? Especially in a govt ran org. I think Ms. Moran said it best on the news, the lady is spot on!

+1

The other two are missing the point. One is doing so intentionally, since he has no trouble making the very same arguments I'm making now, as long as it's about JTA not JEA. Lol

And Riversideplanner, you, me, or uptown girl could each do a better job running JEA than its current management. Easily. The engineers and people who actually do the work deserve to be paid. But a million dollars in annual salaries to market a monopoly? Really? And WTF is this discussion of CEO pay, I never brought that up to begin with. That's another strawman you're tossing into this discussion. My issue was with the salary levels and apparent redundancy of many mid-level positions.

And stjr, no, it's not market based. Go to any private sector employer and find me a call center employee who makes $60k a year with a pension and full benefits. I'll be waiting...

[Ralph W]

Follow up story:

http://www.news4jax.com/money/26751450/detail.html

[dougskiles]

And Riversideplanner, you, me, or uptown girl could each do a better job running JEA than its current management. Easily. The engineers and people who actually do the work deserve to be paid. But a million dollars in annual salaries to market a monopoly? Really? And WTF is this discussion of CEO pay, I never brought that up to begin with. That's another strawman you're tossing into this discussion. My issue was with the salary levels and apparent redundancy of many mid-level positions.

Easy to say that you can do something better than someone else when you don't actually have to do it and are not accountable for the results.  We would never know until you tried.  And then it wouldn't be you who gets to decide on how successful you have been.  It would be the bloggers.

But if we're talking about completely redundant positions, then I agree with you.  That goes back to my point about why we haven't see a significant reduction in government positions relative to their private counterparts.

[ChriswUfGator]

And Riversideplanner, you, me, or uptown girl could each do a better job running JEA than its current management. Easily. The engineers and people who actually do the work deserve to be paid. But a million dollars in annual salaries to market a monopoly? Really? And WTF is this discussion of CEO pay, I never brought that up to begin with. That's another strawman you're tossing into this discussion. My issue was with the salary levels and apparent redundancy of many mid-level positions.

Easy to say that you can do something better than someone else when you don't actually have to do it and are not accountable for the results.  We would never know until you tried.  And then it wouldn't be you who gets to decide on how successful you have been.  It would be the bloggers.

But if we're talking about completely redundant positions, then I agree with you.  That goes back to my point about why we haven't see a significant reduction in government positions relative to their private counterparts.

The same could have been said for the CEO of JEA before he was hired for the position, no? You never really know till you know. That doesn't mean much one way or the other.

And FWIW, my point from the get-go was about outrageous mid-level salaries and redundancy, I never brought the CEO into it, that was Riversideplanner's straw man, not my point. So we agree there.

[cityimrov]

Being a CEO is an insanely difficult job.  It can be an easy job.  When your CEO, you are given a ton of power.  You can either use that power for good or for evil.  Yes, anybody can be a CEO.  Yes, the job CAN be easy however a GOOD CEO makes the job difficult.  

The reason why it's so hard to hire for a CEO is because you literally need to TRUST the guy to be a part of the GOOD side and not the BAD side.  A good CEO will spend all day and night reading reports, verifying reports, going from department to department comparing and making sure they are the best of the best.  If a department is doing bad, the CEO will go to that department and find a way to fix it!  Hire people, fire people, motivate people, reorganize people, etc.  A bad CEO will just let both his bad and good engineers and managers do whatever they want and take a vacation to Tahiti.  

In JEA's case, if they spend $5 billion on a Nuclear Power plant instead of $1 billion they could have and gotten the same quality for both plants, that's a bad CEO.  If they directed the company towards that $1 billion plant, that's a good one.  If you think you rates are expensive now, have the CEO make a $4 billion blunder and see what happens to your rates then.  

Your hiring for a position that makes sure that $4 billion blunders don't happen.

[stjr]

And stjr, no, it's not market based. Go to any private sector employer and find me a call center employee who makes $60k a year with a pension and full benefits. I'll be waiting...

Chris, salaries are an "art", not a science, under the best of circumstances.  If set properly, compensation (salary, bonus, benefits, etc.) should be management's best judgment, negotiated at arms-length with the subject employee, based on the marketplace, the person's efficiencies (resulting from the skills, education, and experience brought to bear, the work ethic and physical/intellectual qualities of the individual, etc.) and an evaluation of the value of the person's output.  Without first hand knowledge of all these factors, it is all but impossible to judge what is appropriate from afar.

And, even with all the information, honest people can disagree or differently negotiate to some extent, which is why compensation levels are often expressed in ranges, rather than a specific numbers.  Work environments (e.g. job security, stress of job, physical surroundings, endangerment, etc.) may also play a role.  I see wide ranges all the time in the private sector (or, even within the same organization) even though few employers wish to pay more than necessary to get the job done.

Using the call center employee you cite as an example, we don't know their exact job responsibilities or how well they execute them.  Do they manage dozens or hundreds of other call center personnel?  If they deal with customers, are they residential or complex corporate accounts that may require specialized technical training?  Do they receive exceptional praise from customers?  Are they more experienced and efficient at resolving issues?  Do they handle significantly more service calls/issues than others making less?  Do they have secondary responsibilities not evident by their job or department classification?  Did they contribute suggestions that resulted in greater efficiencies to the organization?  Do they lead/train others?  Until we know such things, how can we judge the appropriateness of their pay?

As an attorney, do all attorneys get paid the same thing?  Or, do some make 50K or less while others make millions?  What's the difference?  They all practice law.

If you have an issue with management's judgment or believe there is unacceptable redundancy, then you must have inside information to reach such conclusions.  I don't, so I have no comment on that aspect.  I am forced, until demonstrated otherwise, to assume that management is competently doing their job as they remain employed without public criticism from the JEA board.  If you say you don't question the CEO, you are tacitly saying these are non-issues with you as the CEO is where all accountability leads to.  If you feel JEA is out of whack, then you must put that at the feet of the CEO.  That IS why he/she get the "big" bucks.  As a public entity, I would say you qualify, within the allowances provided by law, as a "stockholder" and you should have the opportunity to take your concerns to JEA's management and/or board.  Have you done this?  In what forum?

[cityimrov]

I should add one more thing.  A $1 billion blunder is the price of 2.8 courthouses.  A $4 billion blunder is the price of 11 courthouses!

Oh, and the city is also managing to keep it's salaries low because the people in the city hires lots and lots of private consultants for lots of money that dwarf any public sector salary.  Our city doesn't have people with the knowledge needed to run some sections of it.  Because of lack of that internal knowledge, the city pays lots of money to private companies for outside consultation. 

[uptowngirl]

The problem with JAX government is good high paying jobs go to golf buddies, not the most experienced or best person for the job. Is it any wonder people are questioning these salaries? With police officers and firemen taking job cuts and pay cuts why the hell does the CEO of  a government utility need to be making 347K a year before bonus ?

The duties outlined here in several posts that are trying to justify this position and pay can easily be made by a CFO or even potentially a CTO (which is most likely in the same six figure range). For that matter why should this position make more than the mayor? I mean based on the outlined duties on posts here again, the mayor is making more longterm decisions, with less opportunity to correct mistakes, dealing with more potential for loss of money than the CEO of JEA.

When you measure the NEED of the community who is footing the bill, we need to be looking at positions to eliminate, or cut pay and this is an area to start with-not public safety. The citizens could use an additional five firemen or police officers more than a CEO for monopoly that already has a CFO and CTO checking the numbers and technology, or a slew of marketing resources, does anyone have a choice about who turns their electricity on?

This position, if it needs to exist can be more than about money, you can get really good people that will take the job for less for the experience of it. This is how we get great people in the government segment. Ms. Moran hinted at this when asked about these salaries, and she is correct. No one is saying this should be a 30K /yr job-  but is the position needed or is it fairly redundant based on the other roles we are already funding? If it is needed, it certainly is not a 347K/yr position which is more than even the mayor makes.

[ChriswUfGator]

The problem with JAX government is good high paying jobs go to golf buddies, not the most experienced or best person for the job. Is it any wonder people are questioning these salaries? With police officers and firemen taking job cuts and pay cuts why the hell does the CEO of  a government utility need to be making 347K a year before bonus ?

The duties outlined here in several posts that are trying to justify this position and pay can easily be made by a CFO or even potentially a CTO (which is most likely in the same six figure range). For that matter why should this position make more than the mayor? I mean based on the outlined duties on posts here again, the mayor is making more longterm decisions, with less opportunity to correct mistakes, dealing with more potential for loss of money than the CEO of JEA.

When you measure the NEED of the community who is footing the bill, we need to be looking at positions to eliminate, or cut pay and this is an area to start with-not public safety. The citizens could use an additional five firemen or police officers more than a CEO for monopoly that already has a CFO and CTO checking the numbers and technology, or a slew of marketing resources, does anyone have a choice about who turns their electricity on?

This position, if it needs to exist can be more than about money, you can get really good people that will take the job for less for the experience of it. This is how we get great people in the government segment. Ms. Moran hinted at this when asked about these salaries, and she is correct. No one is saying this should be a 30K /yr job-  but is the position needed or is it fairly redundant based on the other roles we are already funding? If it is needed, it certainly is not a 347K/yr position which is more than even the mayor makes.

+1

Stjr and Riversideplanner seem to be conflating high salaries with qualified people, which isn't what generally happens around here. They are two separate issues, and the reality is that we generally wind up with high-paid clown circuses in Jacksonville. Stjr, knowing how you feel about JTA, are you really going to argue that point? (My next step is going to be going back and quoting his posts in other threads, lol)

JEA is paying its call center staff between $45k-$166k depending on how long they've been there, and they're generally the rudest bunch of people around. And I still haven't seen anyone justify why JEA has a sizeable advertising department full of 6-figure or near 6-figure salaries, to advertise a government monopoly? Where else would the customers go? Anyone? This is the same agency that started a firestorm late last year for trying to deactivate most of the streetlights in Springfield because it said it couldn't afford them. Seriously, nobody else sees the problem here?

Maybe the solution is to give them all $100k raises? By stjr's logic, that automatically means they're more qualified. lol

[dougskiles]

Ms. Moran hinted at this when asked about these salaries, and she is correct. No one is saying this should be a 30K /yr job-  but is the position needed or is it fairly redundant based on the other roles we are already funding?

You have been referencing Audrey Moran's position on this - but I missed it.  What exactly did she say?

[uptowngirl]

Ms. Moran hinted at this when asked about these salaries, and she is correct. No one is saying this should be a 30K /yr job-  but is the position needed or is it fairly redundant based on the other roles we are already funding?

You have been referencing Audrey Moran's position on this - but I missed it.  What exactly did she say?

It was on first coast news...I think Friday morning, they asked all the mayoral candidates what they thought of the recent disclosure around JEA executive pay. All of them said the did not think these salaries were justified. Ms. Moran was the most clear on outlining that this is a government position, and people enter government position not for the money, but for their contribution. But that in recent years this has been turning, people are not joining the government to contribute, but to take (not word for word but the gist of the statement!)  I am looking for the clip on the site....

[uptowngirl]

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/news-article.aspx?storyid=151621

LOL we see this in Springfield all the time. Hell they have five brandnew trucks, one person per truck all show up at a site and only one person is actually working, the rest sit and watch or stand around and BS for hours.


http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=151625&catid=3

250K in OT only??? WTH?

[Dog Walker]

HELP!  Could someone explain to me the background of why JEA, JTA, JPA, JAA were made independent authorities and outside of the Civil Service System?  Surely there was a pretty good reason they were taken away from the City, but maybe they are too independent now.

[cityimrov]

HELP!  Could someone explain to me the background of why JEA, JTA, JPA, JAA were made independent authorities and outside of the Civil Service System?  Surely there was a pretty good reason they were taken away from the City, but maybe they are too independent now.

The other choice is to let the mayor and mostly the city council make approve and make all the big decisions.  If your curious about that, there's a courthouse thread that explains how things operate at that end.

After reading that thread and the comments made at the Jacksonville.com article, I'm glad I have electricity & can fly away when I need to.  Things can be worse, unfortunately.

That's just my guess though.

[CS Foltz]

Suprised that no one made mention of the AIMO positions............last number I had was $200 Million for the 227 positions............but hay...........they serve at the will of the Mayor! Nice work if you have the connections to land one of those positions right Johnny?