Who Loves JEA?

[tufsu1]

here is SMUD...#6 right above JEA

http://www.smud.org/en/residential/rates/Documents/Rule%202-06.pdf

Very similar rules...

wait...did you just provide data supporting your point?

[tufsu1]

btw...here's a public utilility here in Florida...their rates used to be pretty high because the City of Tallahassee used the utility as a way of recouping lost property tax revenue on all the non-taxable (govt.) property in the downtown and university areas....they have since come back down to earth....nevertheless, they also require deposits.

http://www.talgov.com/you/service/faq.cfm#deposits

oh..and here's another useful link....don't trust JEA's rate comparisons?  Take a look at how Tallahassee shows their rates compared with other areas....still think JEA is a huge ripoff?

http://www.talgov.com/you/electric/pdf/electric_rate_factsheet.pdf

[ChriswUfGator]

um yeah, westsider.  I can totally see how a maximum 40 dollar charge on bad checks and a 35 dollar cut on fee for delinquent bills is the same thing as a 500-1,000 dollar deposit, due immediately.  They seem pretty much identical.

Customers who apply for Residential service will be required to post a
Minimum Security Deposit, or one equal to twice the average monthly bill
(computed as indicated below), whichever is greater. However, upon Customer
request, the UA may use a credit verification agency to obtain the Customer’s Fair,
Isaac score. Based on the score, the UA will determine one of the following deposit
levels: (1) no deposit, (2) Minimum Security Deposit, or (3) deposit equal to twice
the average monthly bill.
A Security Deposit may be waived for Customers who apply for Residential
service. Such Customers must have, within the past two (2)-year period, 1)
terminated a former UA account, and 2) had an Excellent Payment History at the
time the former account was terminated. Excellent Payment History is established
when a Customer does not incur any of the following charges within the most
recent consecutive two (2)-year period:
More than one (1) Penalty Charge per year
Dishonored Payment Instrument Charge
Field Reconnection Charge
Cut Seal Fee
Tampering Fee
When the UA determines a Security Deposit equal to twice the average
monthly bill is necessary, the average monthly bill shall be calculated as follows:
a. Existing accounts: Average the actual Total Amount Billed for the most
recent consecutive twelve (12) month period.
b. New accounts: Average the expected (estimated) Total Amount Billed for
a projected consecutive twelve (12) month period.
c. Existing accounts with less than twelve (12) months of billing history
available: For a twelve (12) month period, use a combination of the
actual monthly billing history available and the expected (estimated)
billings for those months with no actual billing history established.
Total Amount Billed is defined as the total bill rendered for electric, water,
wastewater, gas, and/or solid waste services, including applicable taxes, fees,
service charges, etc.
Security Deposits established or set for any one Utility Service (electric,
water, wastewater, gas, or solid waste) may be applied to other Utility Services.
Resolution No. UA 2002-8
Page 4 of 5
SECTION III. MINIMUM SECURITY DEPOSITS
Following are the minimum Security Deposits for Residential accounts:
Electric ..............................................................$145.00
Gas.......................................................................40.00
Solid Waste ...........................................................22.00
Water Water Wastewater
Meter Size Inside City Outside City Inside City Outside City
5/8” X 3/4” $ 30.00 $ 35.00 $ 35.00 $ 45.00
1-inch 70.00 80.00 60.00 75.00
1-1/2 inch 145.00 165.00 145.00 180.00
2-inch 425.00 490.00 250.00 315.00
3-inch 700.00 800.00 900.00 1,125.00
SECTION IV. ADDITIONAL SECURITY DEPOSITS
Upon reasonable written notice of no less than five (5) business days, the UA
may require an Additional Security Deposit on a Residential account that, regardless
of Excellent Payment History status, has incurred any of the following Service
Charges within a one (1)-year period:
One (1) Dishonored Payment Instrument Charge
One (1) Field Reconnection Charge
One (1) Cut Seal Fee
One (1) Tampering Fee
The Customer will be required to have on deposit with the UA an amount equal to
the Minimum Security Deposit or twice the average monthly bill, whichever is
greater.

http://www.fpua.com/files/res-deposits.pdf

I just needed to do a little more searching.  So, I guess it seems that deposits are pretty much SOP at this Florida Publicly Owned Utility Company.  I guess that makes them the devil too?

It's not SOP, and you're wrong now the same as you're wrong then, because JEA routinely exceeds the state deposit guidelines, and none of the crap you are copying and pasting online actually applies to JEA, since they....for the 3rd time I've told you this....aren't a state-regulated utility.

[ChriswUfGator]

No you haven't.

You posted a bunch of rules that don't apply to JEA, don't connect to each other, and don't have anything whatsoever to do with the discussion. It's like slapping a dead pig carcass, a couple bags of planting manure, a bag of lettuce seeds, a bag of onion seeds, and some raw wheat on the dining table and saying "here hon, I made you a sandwich!"

And you have provided...?  I welcome your help also...

Please... look something up and post it...

As you know, I posted the list from the State's own website showing that none of the random crap you posted was applicable to JEA. I mean, I didn't realize we were going to quantity over quality here...

[ChriswUfGator]

btw...here's a public utilility here in Florida...their rates used to be pretty high because the City of Tallahassee used the utility as a way of recouping lost property tax revenue on all the non-taxable (govt.) property in the downtown and university areas....they have since come back down to earth....nevertheless, they also require deposits.

http://www.talgov.com/you/service/faq.cfm#deposits

oh..and here's another useful link....don't trust JEA's rate comparisons?  Take a look at how Tallahassee shows their rates compared with other areas....still think JEA is a huge ripoff?

http://www.talgov.com/you/electric/pdf/electric_rate_factsheet.pdf

Yeah, except JEA's are B.S. even in that comparison you posted.

That base rate comparison for JEA is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. Maybe you'd want to explain why my bill shows usage of 1935 kWh and a charge for electric of $208.60? According to that rate comparison I'd have paid no more than $130. That's how far off that table you posted is.

[ChriswUfGator]

Ok, Tufsu, so since you've posted something that blows your own point out of the water (as usual) let's do the math, shall we? The incorrect rate comparison you posted shows that 1000kWh with JEA would cost $66.30, for an effective rate of $0.0663 p/kWh. Except that's not what JEA charges, is it?

This is what JEA charges;



Roughly 9 & 1/2 cents p/kWh. That's REALITY, not bogus internet B.S. That's my real bill.

And I'm paying more now, since another 9% rate increase has gone into effect since then!

[ChriswUfGator]

Or how about this one?



So that's 1628 kWh for $176.37, or roughly the same 9 and a half cents per kWh. This is a full 50% higher than the bogus rate comparison Tufsu is posting, and that doesn't even include all the bogus fees. When you add in the "Franchise Fee" and "Public Service" fee, both of which go right back into the city's coffers, the actual effective rate is more like $0.12 p/kWh, which actually places us as one of the most expensive utilities in the entire country, let alone the state of Florida.

Enough of the bullshit from our resident peanut-gallery. These are REAL BILLS, this is what JEA actually charges.

I'm sick of hearing this same crew claim JEA is the lowest rate in Florida, it's actually the highest. One of the highest anywhere, actually. Enough bullshit, either post up your own bills (with your name blacked out) so that we can do the math, or shut the hell up with these asinine arguments that don't reflect the facts. And certainly don't reflect the bills we all get in the mail every month...

[Lunican]

Here is an excerpt from the Public Utility Commission of Ohio Electric Customer Bill of Rights

The electric company may not charge you
a deposit of more than 130 percent of your
estimated average monthly bill for regulated
services. The deposit may be increased or lowered
after three consecutive billing periods if the
deposit you paid differs by 20 percent or more of
the amount that would have been required based
on the actual usage, while taking into account
possible seasonal changes in your usage.

If the company keeps your deposit for more
than six months, the company has to pay at least
3 percent interest on the deposit. After 12 months,
the company will review your account and
determine if the deposit should be returned.

If your service with the company is terminated,
either by your request or disconnection for
nonpayment, the company will apply the deposit
plus any interest accrued to the final bill. You will
receive a refund of your deposit for any amount
that exceeds the amount owed in the final bill.

http://www.puco.ohio.gov/emplibrary/files/media/Publications/Brochures/

From the stories posted here, it sounds like JEA is taking this concept and perverting it into a collection of punitive damages from customers and effectively holding them hostage until it is paid.

These deposits are meant as a hedge against nonpayment from new customers with lower credit scores, they are not meant to be used as an enormous and punitive late fee. That's what the late fees and connection charges are for.

[BridgeTroll]

I woulld be more than happy to pay lower utility bills.  Perhaps I may need to learn more...

Please verify...  I have seen nothing... but maybe I do not have access to all the sources...

and every other media source have already confirmed that the JEA is taking very unusual steps for a publicly owned utility, and solely for the purposes of benefitting the bondholders.

[tufsu1]

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/072707/met_187215932.shtml

so part of the jea bill is actually just taxes that the city adds on?

yes...and as explained on this site before, the contribution helps keep the City budget balanced....if I recall, it was somewhere close to $100 million....so without it, millage rates would likely be increased.

[tufsu1]

Ok, Tufsu, so since you've posted something that blows your own point out of the water (as usual) let's do the math, shall we? The incorrect rate comparison you posted shows that 1000kWh with JEA would cost $66.30, for an effective rate of $0.0663 p/kWh. Except that's not what JEA charges, is it?

hey Chris...I know you sometimes have a difficult time reading (and instead prefer to attack)....

But note that the Tallahassee comparison said "base rate"...you and I may very well pay more than that...depends on lolts of factors, such as peak usage.

Also note that your bill includes a non-taxable fuel charge of around $75...subtract that and now your kwh rate is around $0.068.

[BridgeTroll]

Here is an excerpt from the Public Utility Commission of Ohio Electric Customer Bill of Rights

The electric company may not charge you
a deposit of more than 130 percent of your
estimated average monthly bill for regulated
services. The deposit may be increased or lowered
after three consecutive billing periods if the
deposit you paid differs by 20 percent or more of
the amount that would have been required based
on the actual usage, while taking into account
possible seasonal changes in your usage.

If the company keeps your deposit for more
than six months, the company has to pay at least
3 percent interest on the deposit. After 12 months,
the company will review your account and
determine if the deposit should be returned.

If your service with the company is terminated,
either by your request or disconnection for
nonpayment, the company will apply the deposit
plus any interest accrued to the final bill. You will
receive a refund of your deposit for any amount
that exceeds the amount owed in the final bill.

http://www.puco.ohio.gov/emplibrary/files/media/Publications/Brochures/

From the stories posted here, it sounds like JEA is taking this concept and perverting it into a collection of punitive damages from customers and effectively holding them hostage until it is paid.

These deposits are meant as a hedge against nonpayment from new customers with lower credit scores, they are not meant to be used as an enormous and punitive late fee. That's what the late fees and connection charges are for.

I have to say... I sincerely appreciate the actual data that now appears to be flowing into this debate.  This is 100% better than... "JEA sux".  (they may... but now we will actually know why or why not...!)

Lunican... Please explain.  Why only "new customers?".  Why not existing customers who move frequently?  Why not landlords who take rent and do not pay the bill.  There are a myriad of "hedges" an entity such as JEA must hedge against. 

I have to add... even Ock might say.... "Just cause they do it that way in Ohio... does not mean that is how we do it in Florida."  What about Chicago?  Im guessing the furnace is is working pretty hard these days.  How is the Chicago utility dealing with non payment?

[ChriswUfGator]

Ok, Tufsu, so since you've posted something that blows your own point out of the water (as usual) let's do the math, shall we? The incorrect rate comparison you posted shows that 1000kWh with JEA would cost $66.30, for an effective rate of $0.0663 p/kWh. Except that's not what JEA charges, is it?

hey Chris...I know you sometimes have a difficult time reading (and instead prefer to attack)....

But note that the Tallahassee comparison said "base rate"...you and I may very well pay more than that...depends on lolts of factors, such as peak usage.

Also note that your bill includes a non-taxable fuel charge of around $75...subtract that and now your kwh rate is around $0.068.

Why would I be interested in perpetuating JEA's B.S. by removing the fuel costs, taxes, and fees from the bill and then comparing that amount to other utilities' combined rates that include these items? My whole complaint, Tufsu, is that this is exactly what JEA is doing to claim (incorrectly) that it is the lowest rate in the state when it is actually the highest. Why would I complain about that and then do the same thing?

I'm doing what JEA doesn't do, but should be doing. And what other companies do. Which is to compare the combined rate / total cost to the other providers. JEA is, based on what I've seen, the highest combined rate of all the large utilities in the state. This is just simple math, divide out the actual rate by looking at my bills...thats what we're actually paying. They can publish whatever B.S. statistic they want, it still comes back to that's what we're actually paying. The bill's the bill, it doesn't lie. Divide the cost by the useage and that's your actual combined rate. Period. The rest is just smoke and mirrors.

[tufsu1]

Why would I be interested in perpetuating JEA's B.S. by removing the fuel costs, taxes, and fees from the bill and then comparing that amount to other utilities' combined rates that include these items?

so you can prove the rate comparison I provided from Tallahassee included all the extras for the other utlities?

You're claiming JEA is the highest in the state....while I'm sure JEA's own "propaganda" wouldn't want to show that, why would Tallahassee show JEA considerably cheaper than utilities in Gainesville and Orlando?

Oh wait...I answered my own question...here's Orlando's info....note the separate base charge and fuel charge.

http://www.ouc.com/en/residential/electric_and_water_rates/electric_rates.aspx

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

So in essence what you're saying is that when you advertise, you should just throw the big number out there and just let it fly?

When you purchase anything - there is a listed cost and an actual cost - do you ever see the actual cost in the Sunday paper?  Hell no, and why should JEA or any other gov't agency do it.  The bills are transparent, they're not hiding anything so I don't see what all the fuss is over what they say it costs and what you pay.

Back to another discussion we had on the courthouse regarding re-use and buying new - the listed cost of recycling is $0 but the actual cost ends up being more (in many cases) than if you would have purchased new, but the Green Men sold you on the $0.

I'm of the opinion that JEA is just the same.  The point that keeps getting brough up is why don't they blow it all up and start fresh - yeah, the same train of though of JEA sux.  Another point someone brought up is the lack of an actual competitor - I've got one question, "How is the competition going to get the power to your house?"  For there to be competition, they would require infrastructure that's non-existant.  So I think we can put that idea to bed as well.

Since we all agree that we hate paying the bills, I think that most of us realize that our electric bills are like taxes, we can stop paying them when we die or exit the grid.