Education System in America: Best in the World!

cityimrov · February 01, 2011, 12:29:42 AM

In my personal opinion, I think the public education system for primary and secondary system is failing out students badly. From what I hear from the university system this problem is now crawling up the undergraduate system and is only going to get worse. Of course, my opinion is in the minority. Why do I say that?

Because the system is still the same and hasn't changed! I'm ready to change the system but anytime I try anything - and I mean ANYTHING, I have a mass of people ready to stop me. Maybe I haven't listened enough. Maybe one of you is part of these groups. So I'll take the time now to stop and listen.

Why is our education system so great that we shouldn't change it? Why are you stopping any change to the system? Why is our system the best in the world?

blandman · February 01, 2011, 12:32:27 AM

Can you elaborate on the sort of changes you've had blocked? Just curious!

dougskiles · February 01, 2011, 06:07:43 AM

One thing that always needs to be considered when comparing our public education system to any other in the world is the diversity of our student population. In some countries, a one-size-fits-all approach may work because they are all the same size. From my perspective, it doesn't work at all here. Same can be said about health care.

uptowngirl · February 01, 2011, 08:05:37 AM

It employees a lot of people, and is free day care, and well kids will learn SOMETHIG while there.

That is about all I can think of good.

dougskiles, what do you mean by the diversity of our students? How is it so different from other countries?

Jaxson · February 01, 2011, 08:12:44 AM

Why am I confused about education reform? Because we are so eager to model our education system after those of other nations, and yet we are ready to fight when someone suggests that we model our health care system after these same 'progressive' nations. And, putting health care aside, these education reformers are the same ones who look down on those other 'socialist' nations when we praise anything else that they do well. LOL

BridgeTroll · February 01, 2011, 08:39:19 AM

Perhaps our parents and students are failing our education system. Facilities and transportation are provided. Books, libraries, computers, and internet access are provided. Curriculums are devised and tests are given... yet 25% of our students cannot even be bothered to finish?

Parents and students seem to be pointing the finger at "the system" while refusing to point their collective fingers at themselves. What about the 75% who do manage to graduate? The system managed to get them through and most of them on to higher education.

The failures of our education system may be more a failure of society and culture than it is the education system.

uptowngirl · February 01, 2011, 08:53:37 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 01, 2011, 08:39:19 AM
Perhaps our parents and students are failing our education system. Facilities and transportation are provided. Books, libraries, computers, and internet access are provided. Curriculums are devised and tests are given... yet 25% of our students cannot even be bothered to finish?

Parents and students seem to be pointing the finger at "the system" while refusing to point their collective fingers at themselves. What about the 75% who do manage to graduate? The system managed to get them through and most of them on to higher education.

The failures of our education system may be more a failure of society and culture than it is the education system.

+10000

The problem is in some schools that of society who does not give a flip is the majority and it impacts everyone. At times I ask why I am even sending my child to school. She is reviewing Pre-K stuff in class and is only really learning at her level at home with the work we do with her. At school math consists of problems like "if you have one apple, and Paul gives you two apples how many apples do you have" while at home we are working on multiplication tables. At school they are reading picture books, while at home we are reading Little House on the Prairrie and Nancy Drew. At school they teach down to the lowest common denominator and it impacts all the other students in class. It isn't even at an intellectual level either. If one child is disruptive and cannot behave ALL the children are kept in for recess...WTH? One child in class is allergic to wheat, so no cupcakes for Birthdays and such. No Halloween parties are allowed too religious, but they sing songs in music class about Jesus? Yep Homeschool or private next year.

dougskiles · February 01, 2011, 09:40:27 AM

Quote from: uptowngirl on February 01, 2011, 08:05:37 AM
dougskiles, what do you mean by the diversity of our students? How is it so different from other countries?

What countries have the racial diversity comparable to the United States? And are those the same countries that we are trying to compare ourselves with? How many 'african-chinese' are there? Is that even a group large enough to justify such a name?

Do the teaching methods that work for one set of kids growing up in a particular environment work for a group growing up in a completely different environment?

My response to anyone with great ideas about how to fix the education system is to go to the worst school you can think of and volunteer your services. We have plenty of policy makers. We need more foot soldiers.

dougskiles · February 01, 2011, 11:52:09 AM

Quote from: stephendare on February 01, 2011, 09:45:30 AM
The difference is in how these countries handle 'diversity', and there are a number of models from which to learn---both the positive and the negative.

Please elaborate. I'm not saying we are the most diverse, what I'm asking is how do we measure up with those who face similar issues. There are always going to be variations within any population. Some appear to have more contrast within the variation than others. Some countries are diverse, but don't make any attempt to treat the groups equally. I don't see how we can have an intelligent conversation about improving education without acknowledging the differences. What works for one group is not necessarily going to work for the other.

Ralph W · February 01, 2011, 02:06:59 PM

http://www.tuftsdaily.com/yale-professor-champions-chinese-mothers-strictness-tough-love-in-new-book-1.2450842

uptowngirl · February 01, 2011, 02:22:45 PM

So people of different ethnicities learn differently?

Ralph W · February 01, 2011, 02:31:02 PM

Quote from: uptowngirl on February 01, 2011, 02:22:45 PM
So people of different ethnicities learn differently?

So people ~~of different ethnicities~~ learn differently.

BridgeTroll · February 01, 2011, 03:01:21 PM

So other countries are tailoring their education systems to the needs of the individual? Really? Perhaps you could show me where this is the case. I actually thought the opposite was true... most of these countries who score better than our students were actually more regimented and less likely to tailor curriculums to individuals.

dougskiles · February 01, 2011, 04:41:08 PM

Our system is far from perfect. However, we are incredibly fortunate that we have the opportunity to get involved and do something about it.

Quote from: cityimrov on February 01, 2011, 12:29:42 AM
Because the system is still the same and hasn't changed! I'm ready to change the system but anytime I try anything - and I mean ANYTHING, I have a mass of people ready to stop me. Maybe I haven't listened enough. Maybe one of you is part of these groups. So I'll take the time now to stop and listen.

Forgive me for asking about something that you may have explained in previous threads. Can you explain what you have tried to do and how you were stopped?

cityimrov · February 01, 2011, 05:20:23 PM

I should make a note here. It wasn't me who had these blocked but people who tried.

The one of the stronger ones is the ability to fire unproductive & even violent teachers. From what I hear from the administration who heard from the district lawyers, they basically said "deal with it". And they dealt with it shuffling the teacher with a poor class after class until the law arrested him from some outside violent crime.

The other big thing is teacher hiring. Your not allowed to hire people from the real world with real experiences (i.e. you can have a PhD with a Nobel Prize in Mathematics and enthusiasm to teach kids where even the staff recognizes your enthusiasm but you aren't allowed to teach unless you spend lots of money & time fulfilling certain government requirements). My ideal education system is a bunch of elderly experienced successful people who went out in the world and now come back to school during their retirement to help share to future generations the knowledge they learned. Our system doesn't allow that unless you are willing to jump through A LOT of hoops.

Even then, once that happens, your limited to teach only what's in the curriculum no matter how useless it may be in real life application. Especially in advance courses.

Just a note about the current system. Sure, in our countries, they do the centralized thing but based on several reasons including homogeneous population, they are good at that. In our country, we try to do a mix of individualized teaching (hopefully) and forced centralized curriculum (current trend) - we're trying to do everything and ending up doing badly on both!