Where the Hell Was This?

[Ocklawaha]

OWNED BY JACKSONVILLE ELECTRIC COMPANY RY - BECAME JACKSONVILLE TRACTION IN 1912

LINCOLN PARK, Amusement or Recreational Park, Jacksonville, fl CIRCA-1911
PHOENIX PARK, Amusement or Recreational Park, Jacksonville, fl CIRCA-1911

OWNED BY NORTH JACKSONVILLE STREET RAILWAY TOWN AND IMPROVEMENT COMPANY

ROOSEVELT PARK, Amusement or Recreation Park, ALSO CAR BARN, Jacksonville, fl CIRCA-1911

26 MAIN STREET, Jacksonville, fl. Main Street Ry. Offices (barn?) CIRCA 1900


What can our detectives discover?

OCKLAWAHA

[Cliffs_Daughter]

Ock, wasn't Phoenix Park up around Evergreen Cemetery area?  I swear I saw photos in one of my Jax history books. Now I have to run home to find it.

[spuwho]

Google Maps has Phoenix Park in their database and shows it at E44th and Rose, which is now Evergreen.

[Ocklawaha]

That would place it in the north edge of Evergreen Cemetery, but that's NOT right, the historic Phoenix Park owned by the ELECTRIC RAILWAY was on the water, but as far as the Traction Company went was just beyond "northeast of" the corner of Buffalo, 44th and Evergreen Avenues. The park was on the river but there seems little information about it.

Worse? Where was Roosevelt Park? Somewhere in the northside? My guess along Moncrief or Myrtle? This is important because it was both carbarn and amusement park for a development area. I'm thinking around 22nd and Myrtle?

OCKLAWAHA

[spuwho]

The "Phoenix" neighborhood ran east of the Jacksonville & Fernandina RR and north along Phoenix Ave. (Formerly Eisner Street).

When the rail link to Talleyrand was put it, it was somewhat cutoff and only Evergreen Street and Jackson Street (now Florida Ave.) connected it to the south with the rest of the city.

[spuwho]

I checked some more and the traction line through to Phoenix came down Union to get across Hogan's Creek. It then turned north up Fourth Street (now Philip Randolph) and made a jog at 1st Street (then Darwin Street) over to Evergreen to go north to the Phoenix area.

[acme54321]

This says it was at "northern limits of the city"

http://books.google.com/books?id=BohkF-kBZHEC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=roosevelt+park+jacksonville&source=bl&ots=YpjUPuHAm_&sig=q6lDWD5nBFOd_CKNxCDoHlSiUVk&hl=en&ei=Zh9DTYmcI4-u8AbFooy8AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=roosevelt%20park%20jacksonville&f=false

[Ocklawaha]

I checked some more and the traction line through to Phoenix came down Union to get across Hogan's Creek. It then turned north up Fourth Street (now Philip Randolph) and made a jog at 1st Street (then Darwin Street) over to Evergreen to go north to the Phoenix area.

Here's a more accurate map spuwho, its a proof not ready for publication that the city and I are working on together.



OCKLAWAHA

[spuwho]

It might be worth noting that Telfair Stockton was the President of the North Jacksonville Traction. He developed San Marco and bought the land from mining interests in what is now Ponte Vedra.

His real estate investment company lives on in Stockton Real Estate.

[Ralph W]

(ock)

Tried to copy and paste but no go. See pages 38-39

[thelakelander]

Ock, what do the green and red lines represent?

[Ocklawaha]

Green lines = historic streetcar lines which fall in line with modern proposals

TEAL = THE HISTORICAL STREETCAR LINES

Red lines = modern PROPOSED streetcar lines which were never part of the historical system

Check this out discovered TODAY whilst digging for more information on different electric lines in the area.

[mbwright]

Amazing what big business can do to ruin a perfectly good transportaion system.  If you have not been out west to Perris, CA, you are missing great history.  The orange Empire Railway Museum has many of the cars from the great trolly era of Pacific Electric, and many more.  I live not too far from the old right of way in Santa Ana, CA.   Ock, is there a compiled book or something that shows all that was here and where?  I'm currently living on the Northside, but travel all over town.

[spuwho]

(ock)

Tried to copy and paste but no go. See pages 38-39

Telfair Stockton And Ernest C. Budd (the treasurer of the railway) were business partners and were instrumental in the development of "New Springfield"

He is president of the Stockton-Budd Company, real estate investments, president of the New Springfield Company, and interested in several other companies closely connected with these. In developing large tracts of suburban property Mr. Stockton has done much for the advancement of the outlying sections of Jacksonville; Springfield, which is one of the finest residence localities, having been developed almost entirely through his efforts.

In the matter of public improvements and advancement of the State, Mr. Stockton has been an earnest advocate of improving the railway facilities and inland water ways, and has always been a strong advocate of the deepening of the harbor to a thirtyfoot channel, so that the largest ships can enter and take produce to all parts of the world.

Another improvement of which he is a warm advocate is the building of a hard surface highway from Fernandina to Pensacola, via Jacksonville, with a good hard surface road from some point on the line through the center of the peninsula.

Source: Florida Historical Society, "Makers of America"

Sounds like the kind of guy MJ would like to research. Maybe we can blame him for the sprawl.

[Ocklawaha]

Check out the name of the park and car barn location in North Jax. One listing says it's in Masons Park, the other in Roosevelt Park! Did they change the name? If we're talking New Springfield, I don't think it would be out past Brentwood? There was a line up Main to about 40th, and another that ran west from the Andrew Jackson school to the park just beyond Golfair, but I don't recall THAT park being called by either name.

Here is the important part, slim as the chance might be. There are several large, tall, square old buildings in that area that are warehouses, hardware stores or have found other uses... ONE OF THEM MIGHT BE OUR LAST SURVIVING STREETCAR BARN - hidden in plain sight and we wouldn't have a clue. If we can figure out where the park was, and if there is any large buildings around it today, we might have a winner.