Lost Jacksonville: Cunningham Furniture Company

[thelakelander]

I've always viewed the urban core as basically being the preconsolidated city of Jacksonville. 



There is notable difference in the environment of this network of neighborhoods and the rest of the city/county.

[Gravity]

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-apr-when-downtowns-policies-went-to-the-southside

ah.  So you clearly think that someone waved the magic 'outdated' wand which caused everyone to strike out for the towncenters, and that it has nothing to do with very bad downtown specific policies?

Clearly such specific policies are not the cause of a singular kind of downtown failure, right?

But Im still interested in how you plan to pay for all this sprawl?  And why you think its ok for everyone else to come up with billions of dollars to support your very modern 'node pattern' development.

Still interested in how you keep it from becoming a centrifuge for ethno/economic separation, but hey, I understand if you don't want to answer that.

There is always going to be ethno/economic separations. Thinking that everyone is always going to live together in peace and harmony is kind of silly.

Why does crime and other undesirable elements always follow subsidized housing? This is a much greater debate than i was attempting to get involved in, but the answer also follows myopic centralized planning that does nothing to bring people together with real solutions.

Why do people with means flee from gunshots? Thats pretty basic. No amount of central planning is going to stop that kind of behavior, unless you put up tolls to keep people from moving away, which is equally absurd. But you never know, fines for suburban living might just be the solution

If you want downtown to thrive, connect it to what thrives. There has to be a lifeline. A simple suggestion for what I was seeing as a noble but unreal visualization of what this city can be. The cure is not more of the cause.

[Gravity]

I can't be sure, but I think you may be including SJTC in your list of 'Walkable Town Centers'.  Please, explain to me how that place is in any way walkable?? You may also be including Tapestry Park.  How would that be considered a walkable neighborhood when you consider that if you want anything other than Jimmy Johns, running shoes, or a steak dinner you have to drive in your car?? 

And if you want to get downtown from most of these neighborhoods you have to drive in your car.

[Captain Zissou]

I can't be sure, but I think you may be including SJTC in your list of 'Walkable Town Centers'.  Please, explain to me how that place is in any way walkable?? You may also be including Tapestry Park.  How would that be considered a walkable neighborhood when you consider that if you want anything other than Jimmy Johns, running shoes, or a steak dinner you have to drive in your car?? 

And if you want to get downtown from most of these neighborhoods you have to can drive in your car.

I lived in San Marco for 15 months and probably drove 'downtown' 5 times.  I probably walked, biked, or rode the skyway 70+ times.  I currently live in riverside and bike up the riverwalk to reach downtown...

If I may, what part of town do you live in and what do you frequent?  What is your favorite restaurant or nightlife venue?

[TheProfessor]

I don't see why the city allowed so many parking gargages to be built that lack any architectural intention?

[Gravity]

Its not that I disagree that there are and should be regional 'nodes'.  That is part of the pattern of development that was the intended consequences of zoning theories that were instituted in the early part of the last century during the Progressive Movement.  Which makes your 'outdated' comment a bit more ironic.

Once again, the size, scope and breadth of the "urban core" is what i was referring to as being outdated. Many zoning laws need to be revisited in the surrounding neighborhoods if something like an urban core reflecting the size of city we are becoming would be constructed. The river poses quite a barrier but creative solutions that are accessible to more people need to be thought out.

I used to live in riverside and walk/bike to work as much as I could despite the unfriendly walk/bike paths. It was always worth it to make my way to the river-walk.  I tried doing this with my family as well, but there are issues which i refer to being ignored... these issues are not being solved. I loved the ideas of the trolleys, routes for people who live and work a vast improvement on the comical central node switchover. But momentum is still slow because the focus is to narrow.

My job has moved to the southside. Southpoint, which is a huge business hub and is no more friendly to pedestrians and bikes than downtown, perhaps less even. It could equally benefit from the same solutions for commuters, would easily fit inside a swath of land with downtown that larger cities would  call their Urban Core and contribute to a more thriving business/living/entertainment environment which is said to be the goal. To bring these kind of modernizations to downtown is a great first step, but need to be part of a larger plan of modernizing the entire city.

[Ocklawaha]

Crime Stats AT THE PRIME OSBOURNE and a 1/3 mile radius around the PO.

7/24/2010 - 1/24/2011
Description       Count
Assault / Battery      3
Burglary
Burglary / Other      1
Burglary / Residential      0
Burglary / Vehicle      1
Murder      0
Robbery      0
Sex Offenses
Lewd/Lascivious/Exposure      0
Sexual Battery      0
Theft
Theft      9
Theft / Vehicle      2
Vandalism      2



103-Blanding Bl. West side suburban Jacksonville

7/24/2010 - 1/24/2011
Description       Count
Assault / Battery      10
Burglary
Burglary / Other      2
Burglary / Residential      0
Burglary / Vehicle      2
Murder      1
Robbery      3
Sex Offenses
Lewd/Lascivious/Exposure      0
Sexual Battery      0
Theft
Theft      30
Theft / Vehicle      1
Vandalism      4

ANY QUESTIONS?

OCKLAWAHA

[Gravity]

Crime Stats AT THE PRIME OSBOURNE and a 1/3 mile radius around the PO.

7/24/2010 - 1/24/2011
Description       Count
Assault / Battery      3
Burglary
Burglary / Other      1
Burglary / Residential      0
Burglary / Vehicle      1
Murder      0
Robbery      0
Sex Offenses
Lewd/Lascivious/Exposure      0
Sexual Battery      0
Theft
Theft      9
Theft / Vehicle      2
Vandalism      2



103-Blanding Bl. West side suburban Jacksonville

7/24/2010 - 1/24/2011
Description       Count
Assault / Battery      10
Burglary
Burglary / Other      2
Burglary / Residential      0
Burglary / Vehicle      2
Murder      1
Robbery      3
Sex Offenses
Lewd/Lascivious/Exposure      0
Sexual Battery      0
Theft
Theft      30
Theft / Vehicle      1
Vandalism      4

ANY QUESTIONS?

OCKLAWAHA

what is the radius of the lower statistic set?

[thelakelander]

What is the story on the building next to where the Cunningham building was (in the picture)?  The one still standing?

Found my old Sanborn/Jax City Directory notes.  Here are a couple of businesses that were located at 523 West Forsyth over several decades.

1920 - Purity Milk Company

1940 - Cunningham Furniture Company Shipping Department

1950 - Crow Furniture Company

1960 - Crow Furniture Company



Looking at the building's openings, you can tell the second floor was connected to the main Cunningham Furniture building that once sat on the surface parking lot next door.

[heights unknown]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha and a big ole LOL! You guys need to stop cause you're killing me; scared white people.......but that was a part of it I believe.......too many blacks creeping up in the urban core so they ran to the suburbs. Didn't last long as blacks started moving out there too. Well, glad that part of America's history is over and we all pretty much live together and all of us are trying to just get along!

[Ocklawaha]

103-Blanding Bl. West side suburban Jacksonville

7/24/2010 - 1/24/2011
Description       Count
Assault / Battery      10
Burglary
Burglary / Other      2
Burglary / Residential      0
Burglary / Vehicle      2
Murder      1
Robbery      3
Sex Offenses
Lewd/Lascivious/Exposure      0
Sexual Battery      0
Theft
Theft      30
Theft / Vehicle      1
Vandalism      4

ANY QUESTIONS?

OCKLAWAHA

what is the radius of the lower statistic set?

Both are 1/3 mile radius, sorry I didn't make that more clear y'all.  Funny thing is about 8 months ago some national magazine listed LaVilla-Brooklyn as the most dangerous place in Florida, but your FAR SAFER walking alone there then you are almost anywhere else in the city. Perhaps this is the same "national authority," that told us "Fruit Cove Florida," had suffered more insurance and finance job losses then any other city... Well DUH, the ONE INSURANCE SALESMAN that lived in Fruit Cove has moved to WGV! Makes you wonder sometimes...

OCKLAWAHA

[dougskiles]

Great debate!  Gravity, I am very happy to see you join this board, because even though it appears most don't agree with your opinions, it thrives because of the ability to express a dissenting opinion.  Nothing strengthens a case more than being tested by opposing views.

In response to:

Clearly the empty monorail cars and trolley lines, increasingly vacant buildings and green spaces are just screaming of people's ignorance to embrace something modern.

This is something I hear frequently and used to say myself before I started riding it.  Now I take it from San Marco just about everytime I go downtown.  Rarely am I alone.  If I go during the morning and evening 'rush' hour it is often standing room only.  Granted, it is grossly underutilized.  But that is because the system was never finished.  A simple extension further into San Marco (across the railroad tracks) would significantly increase ridership because people are always getting stuck by the train.  Also, connecting it with a streetcar system downtown would make it just one more part of a functional transit system.  Because of the river, it is about the only functional way for a fixed transit system to connect the north to the south.  Connecting it with a commuter rail system would enhance it further.

I agree with your points that the existing suburban nodes need to be considered in the discussion.  There need to be more local services in these areas so those who live there don’t need to drive as far to get them.  Having mini-town centers in each is a great solution.

The issue is that we have spent billions on roads to make the suburban development possible and that perhaps we don’t need to spend any more contributing to it.  We should instead focus on transportation alternatives that are less expensive to build, less expensive to operate, and less expensive for the user.  This type of a system will promote a more urban development pattern in the future.  But that doesn’t mean the suburbanites will have to move into the urban core.  It just means that people will have a viable choice as to the lifestyle they want.  Up until now, all the city and state agencies have done is promote suburban, automobile-centric living.  We simply can’t afford to continue that.

[peestandingup]

No matter if you tore down the ENTIRE building fabric of downtown and turned it into a suburban golf course, the geography and dynamics of the St. Johns River will still dictate that the cows cross at the ford DOWNTOWN. This part of the city was planned by GOD!

OCKLAWAHA

But see, man thinks he was put here by God to be able to do whatever he wants & that we're masters of the universe.

And give it enough time, Ock. I'm sure the city planners will find a way to divert the river & run it out to the suburbs.

[Overstreet]

I think the cows don't cross the river in downtown any more. They probably cross via truck on the Shands bridge.

[Ocklawaha]

I think the cows don't cross the river in downtown any more. They probably cross via truck on the Shands bridge.

All joking aside, if you park yourself along I-95 in south Duval, all the way out to I-10 in west Duval about April and just watch, the cattle trucks from Texas and Oklahoma will be hot and heavy moving the herds back to the tall grass prairie for the summer. Oh, and yes, they pass over the Fuller Warren, no kidding.

OCKLAWAHA