A Tale of Two Beers

[Metro Jacksonville]

A Tale of Two Beers



North Florida is in the grip of old man winter, which basically means we are going to have a couple of really cold days followed by a week of mild days. Winters here can be confusing to the new arrival. Just about the time you pull out your winter coats, crank up the heat, and stock up on firewood the weather changes and everyone is wearing shorts and flip-flops again. Yes, north Florida is a magical place when it comes to winter weather.

But, the schizophrenic weather we Jacksonvillians endure does not mean that we can?t enjoy some good traditional winter beer. And by that I mean stouts and porters. Sure, the beer aficionados out there will argue that there are many other winter brews to choose from and that stouts and porters are quaffable year-round. And they would be correct. But, since this is my column and I want to write about stouts and porters, that is that.

Sit back gentle reader and let me take you on a little journey to the world of David Copperfield (the character, not the magician) and the Georgian and Victorian periods of England.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jan-a-tale-of-two-beers

[BridgeTroll]

Nice article Marc!  I will be looking forward to these.

[Jason]

I cetainly learned something!  Now all I have to do is sample them all   

[Captain Zissou]

Nice article.  It is my understanding that Doubles are made by increasing the malt quantity by 50% and the hop count by 100%, which usually raises the ABV.  Since Guiness is 4.1% ABV, wouldn't that make it a Dry Stout, rather than a Double?

Ben's King Street stout is delicious, but not for the faint of palate or liver.  The Bold City smoky porter was also great, but I haven't seen it in a while.
 

[Gonzo]

Technically, yes. However, historically Guiness has been known as a double or Extra stout. As the years have passed Guiness has mellowed a bit. Also, the Guiness we get here in the states is not the same as what is served in England. Recently Guiness Foriegn Extra Stout has become available here with 7% ABV, which is closeer to the true double Guiness used to be.

[billy]

Lost Abbey and Port Brewing had an event at the Porter Beer Bar last night in ATL
offerings including a stoutish beer called "Viscosity"......

[billy]

I saw a Bell's Cherry Stout recently that looks tempting......

[tarheels86]

A lot of your article is misleading and downright incorrect. I don’t have time to completely edit your writing, but will make some easy corrections so that more and more readers do not propagate hearsay.

First, “stout” and porter are the exact same thing. It is up to the brewer to decide what style to call their beer. In general, stout and porter can be any darker beer with roasted malt (all beer by definition uses barley, hops, yeast, and water) and an abv of 5-7.5%. The word stout is from “stout porter”, which was a marketing term used by Guinness to describe their beer. Today Guinness is neither stout nor porter but a low abv Irish Dry Stout usually served on nitro. Guinness is one of the lightest dark beers in the world and if you actually hold it up to the light is not black at all! It is a clear ruby.

Second, London porters, in the true sense, are no longer made today. The traditional London porter would have been a blend of aged and soured porter with fresher, more roasty character. Since beer naturally sours with age if it is not in a controlled environment, it would have been very normal for aged porter to be sour. Londoners grew accustomed to this taste and so did others. Today, “London porter” is a gimmick and only a handful of breweries make it true to style such as New Glarus in Wisconsin. Porter, the name, comes from London porters (the people) who carried around beer on the street.

Yes, so traditional London porters could technically be considered barrel aged and stouts more fresh and roasty. But porter and stout in generic terms have no difference.

Third, it is highly unusual to bourbon barrel a porter. It was common to age part of a London porter so that it soured but using bourbon barrels for ANY beer did not start until Goose Island did this in 1992 with Bourbon County Stout.

Fourth, bourbon barrels do not impart smoky flavors. They impart vanilla, coconut, butter, and bourbon! Smoke comes from smoked malt, peated malt, or charred oak.

Next, Russian Imperial Stout has more hops and more alcohol to keep the beer from spoiling on its way to Russia. Hops and alcohol act as antibiotics. The high abv could keep it from freezing, but that was not the main point of the style.

Oats actually do the exact opposite of what you have described. Brewers had oats to create silky mouthfeels and make rich beers much easier on the palate. They do not create bitterness or astringency!

Not all oyster stouts are actually made with oysters and I highly doubt a brewer would add a dead piece of seafood into their fermentation vessel for risk of spoilage and infection. If real oysters were used at all, they would be used in the boil. But because this is no rare, the real name of oyster stout is because the beer PAIRS WELL with oysters. Some oyster stouts have a salty, briny character. But this is from the minerals in the beer and NOT from actual oysters.

If you have more questions you can email me at geeeter@gmail.com

[fieldafm]

Those that know me know that I have a sordid love affair with Cigar City Jai Alai IPA.  Well I was dining at the Ravenous Pig in Winter Park recently(GREAT restaurant) and came across a beautiful temptress I began having an affair with.  Her name is the Cigar City Madure Oatmeal Stout.

I highly recommend it, especially for those that want to try a good stout but are normally more reserved about the robustness of the flavor as the Madure is VERY smooth. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Those that know me know that I have a sordid love affair with Cigar City Jai Alai IPA.  Well I was dining at the Ravenous Pig in Winter Park recently(GREAT restaurant) and came across a beautiful temptress I began having an affair with.  Her name is the Cigar City Madure Oatmeal Stout.

I highly recommend it, especially for those that want to try a good stout but are normally more reserved about the robustness of the flavor as the Madure is VERY smooth. 

Totally agree with you on the Jai Alai, as I delve into my shoddy 'whine' tasting vocab, "Jai Alai delivers a clean, crisp nose with a bright bite, the finish tends to start off sharp and mellows its way as it gos down;  and though while it's still an IPA, it doesn't carry the hoppy pretentiousnss of most."

An ale you have to try, if you haven't already, Delirium Noël by Brouwerj Huyghe(sic).  It's a traditional Belgian Ale that has a great 'feel' to it.  It may be considered a winter beer, but I think that it's a fantastic pour.

[Bativac]

Guys, I am not a drinker, but have tried to get into beers - a couple friends are beer connoisseurs but they haven't been able to find anything I enjoy drinking. I'm the annoying "it all tastes like beer" guy. (Strangely enough when it comes to coffee, I'm a snob.) Any recommendations that I might like as a novice beer-taster? Something not too "off the wall?"

I think I'd prefer something designed for drinking at room-temperature versus something cold...

[BridgeTroll]

A lot of your article is misleading and downright incorrect. I don’t have time to completely edit your writing, but will make some easy corrections so that more and more readers do not propagate hearsay.

Interesting first post.  Perhaps you could introduce yourself and fill us in regarding your qualifications and knowledge regarding our favorite beverage...

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Guys, I am not a drinker, but have tried to get into beers - a couple friends are beer connoisseurs but they haven't been able to find anything I enjoy drinking. I'm the annoying "it all tastes like beer" guy. (Strangely enough when it comes to coffee, I'm a snob.) Any recommendations that I might like as a novice beer-taster? Something not too "off the wall?"

I think I'd prefer something designed for drinking at room-temperature versus something cold...

Your best bet would be going to Kickbacks, sitting at the bar and enjoying life.  If they can't find something that you like, then you probably shouldn't be drinking beer in the first place. 

[tarheels86]

A lot of your article is misleading and downright incorrect. I don’t have time to completely edit your writing, but will make some easy corrections so that more and more readers do not propagate hearsay.

Interesting first post.  Perhaps you could introduce yourself and fill us in regarding your qualifications and knowledge regarding our favorite beverage...

Hi all, I am a beer nerd, beer reviewer, homebrewer, and ex-commercial brewer born and raised in Jax. I review primarily on ratebeer under the same handle with now almost 2,100 reviews. I have brewed commercially at the #1 brewery in the world as rated in 2008: De Struise Brouwers in Oostvleteren Belgium. I've brewed batches of Roste Jeanne, Struise Rosse as well as Black Damnation II: Black Mes and Black Damnation IV: Coffee Club which both have 100 points on ratebeer. Currently I am focusing on homebrewing and have about four batches going at any given time.

Marc and I have had a nice exchange of emails so I wanted to provide some highlights so that everyone can learn from the discussion.

--> For bourbon barrel porters, yes they do exist. But barrel aging, especially bourbon barrel aging, a low gravity beer like porter is risky because the low body on the base beer will barely hold up to the intense bourbon character. It is much more likely to see in today's craft beer bourbon barrel IMPERIAL porters, imperial stouts, and barleywines. These are the highest gravity beers that can handle the added heat and warming alcohol from the barrel. Adding bourbon character to a 4-6% abv porter would be a watery mess.

-->Oats are an additive brewers use that fall under the category of unfermentables. These add body to the beer, which is a way of saying they add sugar and not alcohol. Oats are usually added to the malt bill as a way of giving more sugar content and body but not producing a sticky sweetness and cloying effect that some unfermentables produce such as caramel/crystal malt (a favorite of modern brewers). Oats particularly are used for mouthfeel. They create a silky, velvet texture to the beer. They can be up to 30% of the grain bill in some cases.

-->Oysters can be used in the making of beer as can just about any other possible ingredient you can imagine (Bold City has tried using coffee creamer and Peeps marshmallow snacks). But they are not added to primary fermentation. They would be added in the boil to add ocean and salt character or they could feasibly be added to the barrel AFTER the beer has attenuated and has no more sugar that could be fermented by wild sea bacteria to produce nasty off-flavors. So yes it is possible to make an oyster stout with oysters, but it is not fermented with oysters if that makes sense.

For general questions on beer, you can email me at geeeter@gmail.com but you are also welcome to post on the ratebeer forums if you want a bunch of opinions and not just my own. I am 100% positive there are other beerophiles that will disagree with some of my logic.

Cheers!

[BridgeTroll]

Hi all, I am a beer nerd, beer reviewer, homebrewer, and ex-commercial brewer born and raised in Jax. I review primarily on ratebeer under the same handle with now almost 2,100 reviews. I have brewed commercially at the #1 brewery in the world as rated in 2008: De Struise Brouwers in Oostvleteren Belgium. I've brewed batches of Roste Jeanne, Struise Rosse as well as Black Damnation II: Black Mes and Black Damnation IV: Coffee Club which both have 100 points on ratebeer.

This is so freeking awesome!  Who knew Jax had so many expert brewers in town... perhaps our fledgling brewery district could squeeze another in?