2010-856- Transient Vendors in Jacksonville

[Noone]

Is anyone concerned or is it just me and every other county outside of Duval county. This is really happening.

The special committee meeting on 2010-856 took place today in council chambers. Councilwoman Lee chaired the meeting. The sponsor CP Webb was not there as well as co sponsors Joost and Fussell. Holt a co-sponsor was there.

Also present were councilmembers Cresimbeni, Bishop,Brown,Redman,Johnson, saw Gaffney outside but he wasn't there for the meeting.

There was Public comment and at various times people were leaving and there wasn't a quorum so what happened at the end is that there will be 3 subcommittees with one from each I believe Bishop for Rules, Crescimbeni for LUZ and Redman for RCD.

There was one speaker in the beginning that was seeking an amendment to have fireworks exempted from the ordinance.OK

That is basically all I was asking when it was my turn.
Will one of you have the vision to offer an amendment that would exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.

Before the meeting I was sharing with councilman Redman if he would offer an amendment to exempt the Waterways of the St. Johns River our American Heritage River in light of the fact that they are seeking to apply for a state designation of a Blueway Paddling trail for the entire 310 mile length of the River. I told him about the 1/9/11 TU lead editorial TOURISM-A Good Plan and the article is on the USS Adams.
Tourism....Don't we want to promote it? Do we want to promote our River?

I'm in District 4 and All Wet Sports is on Beach Blvd and its a permanent structure. They rent kayaks. Don told me that if I wanted to participate go and find a waterfront lot a mile away and then you'll be OK. Are you serious? He is.

Well I volunteered as well as 3 or 4 others and I will be reporting back to the 3 committee chairs as well as the other members.

I mentioned that there were concerns from counties outside of Duval county with the Alliance. I also mentioned during Public comment that the commissioners of FIND had concerns. I have been going to there meetings for two years and they are appointed by the Governor. Heck with a pocket pier lets just allow for economic opportunity.

If this issue is allowed to stand you definitely don't want to VISIT JACKSONVILLE.     
 

[YellowBluffRoad]

I finally got a chance to read the meeting minutes and watch the video from the joint subcommittee meeting earlier this week

(minutes: http://citycirc.coj.net/coj/CurrentYear/LandUse/97-January-19-2011-Joint-Rules-RCD-LUZ-Minutes.htm,
video: http://media.coj.net/City_Council/Rules_RCD_LUZ_1-19-11.wmv. Unfortunately the video cuts off before the public comment phase is complete and doesn't record the Councilmembers stating their opinions).   

If you're interested, don't just read the minutes. Listen to the speakers. Michelle Baldwin's comments and responses to questions were very useful as well.  Watching reinforced my opinion that before they go changing this ordinance to increase the distance, they should make sure the current vendors are appropriately permitted and compliant with existing ordinance. Fine and punish those who are not. Changing the law to increase the distance will have minimal impact on those who don't care to follow the existing laws, and a material impact to those who do follow the existing laws. Enforce the existing law for 4 months and let's see what the revenue offset is.

Also interesting was Councilman Crescimbeni's information that his research indicated 21 licensed transient merchants now. A 2005 Times-Union article had the count at 173 licensed outside downtown. Either they're a) not being licensed properly by the city, b) tracked differently than they were in 2005, c) we've got lots who are skipping the licensing requirements - and should be addressed by enforcing what's already on the books, or d) all of the above. My bet's on d.

[ChriswUfGator]

My bet is on "E"; That we've witnessed a historic near-total collapse of our downtown in the 6 years since those 2005 statistics came out, and with that being the case most of the vendors probably left along with the restaurants, barber shops, corporate offices, and workers.

[Noone]

YBR, Great post and information. I was the last speaker for Public comment and my presentation wasn't there. The key in my opinion is what councilwoman Lee says in the beginning to councilman Brown. And that is simply the legislation is in place. Will we entertain an amendment to the legislation. If one can be shown.

I'm in District 4. FOUR!!! We better duck. I'm serious when I say that right before the meeting I asked my elected legislative representative if he will offer an amendment to exempt the Waterways of the St. Johns River our American Heritage River and he said "No" OK. For the people Downtown I'd be scared to death. As well as all the people of Duval county.

The Public Trust has been crushed in this community. Has any mayoral candidate commented on our Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier?
Does any candidate support more restrictions for economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River?

On a lighter note. Who's next. The weather should be breaking and next week the tides should be a little better for the sportier trip on McCoys Creek under the Times Union. There is an earey calm about entering this manmade cavern and the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. A morning radiation of light when exiting and the shadows that are cast during this time of the day while your surroundings are awakening to a new day have that warm feeling inside of you that you have captured time by placing yourself in this position to welcome and focus on any little activity.

Lets open this trip up to the members of this forum because everyone else will be focusing on attaching the amendment to 856 that will exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.

How about a shout out to DW, Field, North Miami, Ricker, YBR, Dougskiles, It wouldn't surprise me a bit if team Skiles has already done this. He makes it happen. So Who wants to make a scene Downtown on the water?

Lake has experienced this activity. Should it be a part of our Downtown? I'd say Yes.
   

[urbanlibertarian]

Regulations that limit competition hurt consumers.  The existing law should repealed not strengthened.

[fieldafm]

Watching reinforced my opinion that before they go changing this ordinance to increase the distance, they should make sure the current vendors are appropriately permitted and compliant with existing ordinance. Fine and punish those who are not. Changing the law to increase the distance will have minimal impact on those who don't care to follow the existing laws, and a material impact to those who do follow the existing laws. Enforce the existing law for 4 months and let's see what the revenue offset is.

x1000.

Noone, don't know about McCoys, but after walking Hogans from the shipyards basin all the way to Klutho on Satuday... I might be interested in a Hogans run/cleanup if anyone else can lend a hand.

[Noone]

Field, Thats Super. My vehicle is down and I'm going to play some catch up. Also key meetings coming up. We'll do Hogans.

I hope that everyone right now should be lobbying every candidate for office about attaching an amendment to 856 that would exempt the Waterways of the St. Johns River our American Heritage River. It needs to happen. If it doesn't happen we'll be saying "Don't Visit Jacksonville." 

[fieldafm]

This weekend John?

[Noone]

Field, This weekend sounds great. Looking forward to meeting you and a whole bunch of other super people.

As to 2010-856 I addressed the city council last night and asked and I still hope that someone will attach an amendment that will exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.

Be concerned. 67 counties in Florida and in my opinion if you think for one second that we are getting more access and economic opportunity we are going to be getting less. Has anyone running for office mentioned the Shipyards/Landmar Pier? Any candidate mention a pocket pier (floating dock at a waterfront Public Access street end?)

Be concerned.

[Noone]

Yesterday I had the opportunity to address the Board of Downtown Vision before the start of their meeting. Terry Lorrince is always so accommodating and gracious to make me feel welcome and any other invited guest or speaker. I'm also starting to feel like family just recognizing the other members when I see them in other functions and events. Angela Corey our state attorney was there and you could see that they also had a full agenda. Councilman Redman was there and basically the only real opportunity I had for talking with him was during introductions just going around the room.

My speech to the board was actually a request that the Board of Downtown Vision support a resolution that could be attached to 2010-856 that would exempt the Waterways of the St. Johns River our American Heritage River. Just recognize that Downtown is exempt. The Waterways need to be exempt too.

I shared with the Board about TOURISM and the USS Adams coming to Downtown. Tourism and that the SJRA is seeking a statewide designation of a paddling trail. There are 67 counties in Florida and as this Paddling trail is created do we want to be the only county that would ban a transient outfitter from participating?

There were no questions or any motions. But it is out there. And that is important. The ord. is local. Its still active. Has anyone on this forum contacted any council member about this pending piece of legislation?
I stayed for Angela Corey's presentation and Q&A then left and made it back to my vehicle before the meter expired. Whew! Doesn't take much to make my day.



On my way back to work I put a call in and was fortunate to catch Scott Wilson who is  Don Redman's assistant and just told him that I just saw Don at the Board meeting for Downtown Vision and wanted to share with Scott that I just saw on the news and in the paper where Don called the police on people feeding the homeless. And I basically said Scott this dovetails exactly with the transient vendor ban. Again I'll use All Wet Sports but there are examples everywhere. Ricker I can't wait to meet you and how this could impact the JMM. But anyway I said Scott you were there at the special committee meeting of Rules, LUZ and RCD. Don basically said to me go find your own waterfront access point a mile away and then you can participate. I'm not making it up. The point is and I said to Scott if Don can call the police for this church group feeding the homeless then Don can call the police if I show up or anyone else for that matter that is a transient vendor outfitter that may want to participate in the future of what could be a state wide paddling trail. Scott said that I had a point.

There are more meetings moving forward. It is still a local issue. I have been asking, asking, asking, asking, asking, my city councilman to offer an amendment to 2010-856 that would exempt the Waterways of the St. Johns River our American Heritage River. It doesn't seem to be happening. If he chooses to do nothing that is OK. 

The issue is still a Duval county issue. If nothing happens it immediately sends a message. DON'T VISIT JACKSONVILLE.

and of coarse our new slogan.

Lets get to work- Just not in Jacksonville.

[Noone]

Committee meetings today. Has anyone even attempted to contact their council person to ask for an amendment to 2010-856 that would exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River?

I know its not happening in District 4.

HUGE city council and mayoral campaign issue. Rules meeting in 30 minutes. RCD at 4. Councilman Redman is the subcommittee chair and I've given him so much information and he hasn't taken any action.

Be concerned.

[fieldafm]

My council rep knows of my overall concerns with the bill(which I believe is bad for our city as it does not serve to embrace an entrepreneural economy that our city desperately needs) as well as the potential for a modified bill that would exempt the waterways, as downtown is exempted.

[Noone]

Today at Rules 856 was deferred. Council woman Lee did allow for Public comment at the end of the meeting. I again expressed my concern that an amendment needs to be attached to 856 that will exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.

I illustrated the #1 example of this destruction of the Public Trust by showing the bill 2010-675 the USS Adams and then the one, one, one, just one amendment. And it was a Finance Amendment and the last sentence. Its a potential taxpayer bailout for a future city council and Mayor. The biggest crushing blow about this legislation 2010-675 is that it did NOT go before the Jacksonville Waterways Commission.

At this meeting I again shared with them the potential creation of a statewide designation of a Blueway Paddling Trail for the entire 310 miles of the St. Johns River our American Heritage River. I expressed my concern that out of 67 counties in Florida will Duval county be the only county within this paddling Blueway that may restrict transient kayak outfitter vendors from participating in this economic opportunity.

Ricker, if your out there I'd love to know how the JMM Jacksonville Marina Mile group feel about this legislation.

There is still a pending yet TBA meeting of the special committee of Rules, LUZ, and RCD on this legislation.

[simms3]

I'm having a little bit of trouble following people here.  I didn't want to watch the 1:48:00 video of whatever that meeting was, but I'm trying to recap what you guys are so concerned about.

From what I can gather from these somewhat hazy posts (no offense), the city has enacted a local bill that would ban travelling vendors from setting up anywhere but downtown and within one mile of downtown.  I'm trying to connect the dots on how this relates to our river and waterways, and how it relates to a private group bringing the Adams downtown to be moored as a museum.

I think I am against a bill like this for the easy reason that one of the biggest new fads is meals on wheels.  Cities like Chicago, New York, Atlanta, and DC now have some of the best food prepared in trucks driving throughout the metros and pleasing many people.  I guess these guys would not survive in Jax with this bill and I guess I'll never see JagDog again near Ortega.  Aside from this, I am just a little confused on why this bill is such a big deal.  People feeding the homeless in Hemming?  Yes...big deal!  The feeders should be arrested for that!

[Noone]

Simms3, Lets go kayaking one of these days and I'll try and explain all these hazy posts and there is no offense taken. In my opinion the Public Trust in this community has just been totally crushed and it can only be restored back through legislation. There was a reason that the Charter Revision Commission as one of their recommendations was to restore the original Code of Ethics that was in our charter in 1968 and removed 4 years later.

2010-856 and why an amendment needs to be attached to exempt the waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River. And this is for anybody. Go to Castaway Island, Go to Dutton Island, Tiger Betz is closed and will open soon I think that's the name of the one on the northside. But anyway go and look at the signage. Use Castaway for example. These are Preservation Parks. Look at the bottom and the language in Partnership with the Public Trust, City of Jacksonville and Kayak Amelia. Now don't get me wrong this is not a slam on Kayak Amelia but my first thought is who died and made them the vendors of the Waterways. Was there an RFP? What was the ord. number for the new signage? When was this before the Waterways Commission? Was there a news story in the TU? Folio? Was there news coverage from any local television station? I want to say Congratulations to Kayak Amelia!

So in December the St. Johns River Alliance is now looking for a state designation of a Greenway/Blueway paddling trail the entire 310 miles of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River. Sounds good. Sign me up. I was at the meeting in Palatka. I asked is there any other county that has pending legislation that could shut out an outfitter from participating in this activity with a transient vendor ban of 1 mile that Duval county is considering?

The OGC is looking into this and I believe will offer an interpretation and I hope that it will be one that would support an amendment that would exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River. Does a concession agreement constitute a permanent business status?