Courthouse Asphalt or Green Space: The Choice Is Yours?

[dougskiles]

 

Are they really going to have dedicated bus lanes on Riverplace?

Yes.  Not because its needed.  Like Blanding, moreso because the ROW is there.  

What a shame.  On-street parking and bike lane would be a significantly better use.

[Ocklawaha]

OCKLAWAHA

[dougskiles]

Awesome!  Certainly would be less expensive than an urban street.

[Ocklawaha]

OCKLAWAHA

[simms3]

Is it just me or is it silly that we're even having to debate this?  I'm definitely ALL FOR a public plaza, but I would have been somewhat more at ease if there had been an official plan all along, even if it called for closing roads and building new roads etc.  It's so silly, borderline juvenile, that here we are just free floating ideas around when there should have been a more rigid plan.

I also think the whole courthouse situation is so bad that it's funny.  My mom called me the other day and brought this up, saying that they don't know what to do with the front of the courthouse (road or plaza).  She usually is not fully up to speed on these things, so i thought it was cool she even knew there was a debate going on.

What did I have to say about it?  Well, first of all, it's funny that we picked a design that covered 7 city blocks in the first place.  The design was "beautifulish" for its 7 city blocks, but it was surprising we didn't pick the local team.  Then we found out it exceeded the budget by like $50 million, which was about $195 million in the first place.  Then we cancelled it, and didn't go back to any of the other competing designs, one of which was by our local firm.  We waited a million years as real estate and construction prices skyrocketed, then at the worst possible moment we literally had a 4 year old draw the current courthouse, covering 4 city blocks, still, and well over $150 million over the original budget.  No planning there.

This has got to be one of the worst all time city mistakes in the country.  Literally, if we had just stuck with an original plan, city blocks would have been covered, but it would have cost us taxpayers less, would have been much easier on the eyes, and we could have always figured out how to reroute cars and work in public space (oh wait, all the original plans DID call for public space, which is part of the reason they took up so much space).

I can't believe that we are literally "building" this ugly thing as we go along and roads and greenspace have become an afterthought.

[simms3]

And for me the trains in front of the courthouse are not working for some reason.  I would rather have some greenspace or a Philly City Hall type road.

[fieldafm]

Retail kiosks may be expensive to build and the city may have a hard time filling them.  I would be in favor of something less intrusive, say dedicated spots for transient vendors to pay some type of permitting fee to use.  Less cost to build, less rent for a small business, and it would be something that offers way more flexibility.

[thelakelander]

You can always keep it simple.  Everything doesn't have to be brick and mortar.



Don't know if Jax would allow this, but on some Toronto streets, they allow temporary vendors to park next to public spaces.

[Captain Zissou]

Retail kiosks may be expensive to build and the city may have a hard time filling them.  I would be in favor of something less intrusive, say dedicated spots for transient vendors to pay some type of permitting fee to use.  Less cost to build, less rent for a small business, and it would be something that offers way more flexibility.

I was thinking about this.  What if the city just allowed a private company to lease the space for free for the first 5 years if they would build their own facility and pay for upkeep.  Kind of like the Landing, minus the family feuds.  I'm no sure how profitable it would be for a company, but you never know.  Otherwise I like the transient vendor idea.  I saw some pretty large and sophisticated looking taco trucks in Denver when I was there.

[fieldafm]

You can always keep it simple.  Everything doesn't have to be brick and mortar.

Was thinking of dedicated space with some sort of power/water hookups for something like that

of this

[Bativac]

Don't know if Jax would allow this, but on some Toronto streets, they allow temporary vendors to park next to public spaces.

I don't have any faith that Jacksonville would allow anything like this. I have a vision of guys with hot dog carts (maybe). Which would be okay by me but I have a terrible feeling that the city is going to allow Monroe St to be rebuilt and that the people who would be using Monroe St would be thankful some "useless park" wasn't built in its place.

Plus I imagine the area around Monroe St will be filled with either pavers or concrete. Maybe some planters and maybe some benches. Jacksonville police cars will park on the paved area and make sure nobody is loitering or trying to buy a hot dog or anything.

Yeah, I'm being negative. A friend of mine who grew up here but now lives in Greenville, SC was visiting last week. We went downtown and left after half an hour or so. "Just like I remembered it" he commented.

[fieldafm]

and a public art conception would be great

x500!

JTA could get on the boat as well and sponsor permanent art installations at the Skyway stations... something more prominent than the temporary deals at 'Art Ride'

[vicupstate]

What, if anything, is planned for the empty block that contained the old Southern Bell building [Pearl-Monroe-Julia-Adams]?

That space could be combined with the courthouse 'front lawn' to make something similiar to Nashville's courthouse square.

Creating  a pedestrian mall out of Monroe is not a good idea.  Pedestrian Malls rarely work, and never do in this type of environment.  Ask Raleigh about it's Fayetteville Street Mall.

My guess is that the city council approves JEDC's plan but the 'front lawn' is simply landscaped with no active use.  Main Street Pocket Park part deux.

[Ocklawaha]

OCKLAWAHA

[Captain Zissou]

and a public art conception would be great

x500!

JTA could get on the boat as well and sponsor permanent art installations at the Skyway stations... something more prominent than the temporary deals at 'Art Ride'

Exactly.  Those things look like something off of the death star.  Either public art or just a splash of color would really help the skyway stations.  

In a semi related note, anybody know anything about the 'entrance monuments' that should be on either end of The Shoppes of Avondale?  They were in the plans, but they haven't been put up.  San Marco, for example, has the tower on the north end and the sign on the south.