Courthouse Asphalt or Green Space: The Choice Is Yours?

thelakelander · January 12, 2011, 09:41:43 AM

Yes, it duplicates the skyway. We raised a big fuss over that along with the Adams Street bus mall idea they had a couple of years ago. We were successful in eliminating the bus mall. I guess you win some and you lose some.

Bativac · January 12, 2011, 09:51:15 AM

It would be great to rebuild this area as green space. Is there someone to whom we can make our opinions known on this matter? Is the city seriously considering not rebuilding Monroe street?

Looking at the drawings, it seems absurd to rebuild a street that will be a few feet from another street connecting the same two cross streets. But knowing Jacksonville, it seems like suggestions to do something as "revolutionary" as installing green space in front of the courthouse would be met with a dismissive wave of the hand.

Actionville · January 12, 2011, 10:05:56 AM

Six lanes of traffic there is insane. That's like throwing the Eastern stretch of beach boulevard into the middle of the urban core

longhaul · January 12, 2011, 10:17:14 AM

Nixing Monroe is a no-brainer.

Captain Zissou · January 12, 2011, 10:26:23 AM

I like the plaza idea, and I love Doug's idea about closing Monroe between Pearl and Hogan. What I would add to this is that the plaza would include space for 2-3 retail tenants. Just small free standing venues, 1,000 to 2,000 square feet max. It's been done before, why not here? Coffee shops, cafes, news stands, whatever. That would be a big draw for downtown workers to be able to eat their lunch outdoors on a beautifully designed plaza with shade trees around and the sound of running water and playing children in the background.

(takes of extreme optimist glasses) Of course we already have a downtown plaza with shade trees, running water, and nearby eateries. It is under utilized and overrun with bums. For this plaza to reach its full potential, we would need to address the issues of bums in public spaces downtown.

There's great potential for this space, but I expect it to be at least partially wasted.

Ralph W · January 12, 2011, 10:30:27 AM

This is a fancy pants monument that will have an upscale greenspace, manicured just like the White House lawn and just as accessible to the public - Hah!

dougskiles · January 12, 2011, 10:32:33 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on January 12, 2011, 09:41:43 AM
Yes, it duplicates the skyway. We raised a big fuss over that along with the Adams Street bus mall idea they had a couple of years ago. We were successful in eliminating the bus mall. I guess you win some and you lose some.

Have they broken ground on it yet? I don't mind leading a new fight against it as I promote the San Marco by Design project and the extension of the Skyway to Lasalle and Atlantic.

duvaldude08 · January 12, 2011, 10:34:38 AM

I actually have a different view of the bums aka homeless downtown. The homeless frequent downtown because there is nothing there! If DT were full of people, you would barely see them. Most homeless are ashamed to be seen by the working class. Dont get me wrong, there will always be the brave ones who will stick around regardless. But I think the more our DT grows, the more the homeless will migrate to other places.

TheProfessor · January 12, 2011, 10:41:04 AM

So if the JEDC is against the road, then is City Council against the road as well?

thelakelander · January 12, 2011, 10:41:40 AM

Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 12, 2011, 10:26:23 AM
I like the plaza idea, and I love Doug's idea about closing Monroe between Pearl and Hogan. What I would add to this is that the plaza would include space for 2-3 retail tenants. Just small free standing venues, 1,000 to 2,000 square feet max. It's been done before, why not here? Coffee shops, cafes, news stands, whatever. That would be a big draw for downtown workers to be able to eat their lunch outdoors on a beautifully designed plaza with shade trees around and the sound of running water and playing children in the background.

Definitely agree!

Active uses in public spaces such as those in the images shown above also help with the vagrancy issue.

thelakelander · January 12, 2011, 10:42:59 AM

Quote from: dougskiles on January 12, 2011, 10:32:33 AM
Have they broken ground on it yet? I don't mind leading a new fight against it as I promote the San Marco by Design project and the extension of the Skyway to Lasalle and Atlantic.

No, but its pretty far along in design now.

dougskiles · January 12, 2011, 10:45:27 AM

Quote from: Bativac on January 12, 2011, 09:51:15 AM
It would be great to rebuild this area as green space. Is there someone to whom we can make our opinions known on this matter? Is the city seriously considering not rebuilding Monroe street?

Absolutely we can make our opinions known. And the more of a collective effort that it is, the more seriously we will be taken.

Let's get together next week and discuss it further. I don't know if the MJ group already has an established meeting place for this type of stuff or not. If not, I can get us some space at South Jax City Hall in the conference room.

dougskiles · January 12, 2011, 10:50:16 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on January 12, 2011, 10:42:59 AM
No, but its pretty far along in design now.

Are they really going to have dedicated bus lanes on Riverplace? How much does this work against the concept of extending the skyway? I fear that they will want to extend the BRT along that route instead (Kings to Lasalle to Atlantic). It makes my blood boil that they are cramming this plan down everyone's throat when I know very few who are in favor (other than JTA of course).

Which brings another question - who other than JTA and their consultants is in support of BRT?

Ocklawaha · January 12, 2011, 11:00:18 AM

Yeah, I know it's quick and sloppy but does it need more words?

OCKLAWAHA

thelakelander · January 12, 2011, 11:01:27 AM

Quote from: dougskiles on January 12, 2011, 10:50:16 AM
Are they really going to have dedicated bus lanes on Riverplace?

Yes. Not because its needed. Like Blanding, moreso because the ROW is there.

QuoteHow much does this work against the concept of extending the skyway? I fear that they will want to extend the BRT along that route instead (Kings to Lasalle to Atlantic).

Yes, BRT will go down Kings. That's the only logical way to get it to Philips Highway from Kings Avenue Station. Nevertheless, I don't think it works against extending the skyway into San Marco. A skyway extension would provide a grade separated crossing over the FEC and directly tie in Hendricks and San Marco Square with Downtown. Coordinated properly with adjacent land owners and both of those areas could see great infill development and adaptive reuse take place. Those are benefits that BRT down Kings will not deliver.

QuoteIt makes my blood boil that they are cramming this plan down everyone's throat when I know very few who are in favor (other than JTA of course).

Which brings another question - who other than JTA and their consultants is in support of BRT?

Yes, its being forced down everyone's throats. In general, I support the concept when implemented properly. I'm just not crazy about the path JTA has taken in this local version.