Courthouse Asphalt or Green Space: The Choice Is Yours?

[Metro Jacksonville]

Courthouse Asphalt or Green Space: The Choice Is Yours?



A debate of what to do with the remaining new Duval County Courthouse property in LaVilla is brewing.  One camp would like to see six lanes of asphalt and another believes a public park is the right answer.  So what will it be Jacksonville?

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jan-courthouse-asphalt-or-green-space-the-choice-is-yours

[letters and numbers]

Hey so what is the cost difference between a road or a park space? I like the park idea much better but all those pavers and palms and weekly maintenance may add up you know. I mean isn't city only mowing parks every two weeks now b because it doesnt have the money? But you know they really could probably make it up in paid parking because they cant be dropped off on front. But you know I love the park design its nice!

[dougskiles]

Obviously nobody is using Monroe Street now as a way through the area and people who did have found a new way in.  I used to drive that way and now go up to Church Street where there is usually plenty of parking available behind the City Hall.  Or I take the Skyway downtown.  Which brings up another question.  The Hemming Plaza Skyway station is 2 blocks away from the new courthouse.  I would be in favor of them taking it one step further and closing Monroe entirely between Broad Street and Hogan Street and making the portion of Monroe between the courthouse and Hogan a pedestrian-only route.  That would serve to tie the city functions in the St James and Ed Ball buildings more directly to the courthouse.

[ricker]

Monroe street exit from 95N is not a waste. for once, it might be forethought?
Debate? really?
GREENSPACE!
art in public places!
a garden?
some shade?
some lawn?
a fountain or 30?
outdoor cafe carts?/a.k.a. roach coaches lol
but oh hell no  no useless road.
depending on the caliber of our security and safety systems implemented with any streetcar tracks we could see an emerald necklace connection along the face of the atrium? 

[spuwho]

I agree with JEDC, s/b public green space with no through ROW for Monroe.

If traffic throughput was desirable, then they should have used an urban type design and gone "up" to stay within their 1 square block.  This design was prioritized around appearance as opposed to good urban space use. So if that is the case, improve the appearance further by creating a public green space in front.

It would interesting to see where JTA was planning on putting their new bus stops to service the complex. Anyone like to wager it was on Monroe, right in front? Perhaps instead of just a pedestrian boulevard, create a platform extension from the Skyway Hemming Station similar to what Minneapolis does.

Not to get too snarky, but perhaps we can use the new green space for the Hemming Plaza folk to hang out. More people to panhandle and harass.

I do think it will lead to some positive redevelopment in that area, as court related professions attempt to relocate closer to the action with all of the side benefits it brings. But I am still puzzled where this location fits in an overall master city plan?

[ricker]

tunnels?

[thelakelander]

I do think it will lead to some positive redevelopment in that area, as court related professions attempt to relocate closer to the action with all of the side benefits it brings. But I am still puzzled where this location fits in an overall master city plan?

From my knowledge, there is no overall master plan for this area that povides a clue to a future vision for public owned properties.  This is the closest thing we have:

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Jacksonville+Economic+Development+Commission/Downtown+Development/Downtown+Maste.htm

[thelakelander]

Hey so what is the cost difference between a road or a park space?

According to FDOT Roadway construction cost estimates, the new construction of an urban 2-lane road with 5' sidewalks, curb and gutters tends to average around $12 million/mile.  This means reconstructing this 0.15 mile stretch of Monroe Street could cost taxpayers as much as $1.8 - 2 million.  

I like the park idea much better but all those pavers and palms and weekly maintenance may add up you know. I mean isn't city only mowing parks every two weeks now b because it doesnt have the money? But you know they really could probably make it up in paid parking because they cant be dropped off on front. But you know I love the park design its nice!

The cost of a well designed park space could vary, depending on the amenities included.  The park sketch in the JEDC power point is just that, a sketch.  Imo, you could make a pretty nice space by putting in plain jane sidewalks and cheaper shade trees.  The money saved by not putting in the palms and pavers could go to the cost that would be associated with including better amenities such as fountains, seating and retail kiosks.

[jcjohnpaint]

I am all for the public space.  Look at city hall in Philly as a great example. 

[thelakelander]

The rebuild Monroe Street option is just silly.  Why rebuild a street for cars, just for the sake of rebuilding a street?  Eliminate the extra asphalt by returning the streets around the site to two-way traffic.  As for maintaining a grid, when did we come to the conclusion that every block in a grid has to accommodate vehicular traffic?  Monroe Street wasn't laid out for cars.  I think we do ourselves a huge disservice when we don't look at multimodal transportation opportunities within our urban core, especially downtown.  Eventually, the remaining segments of Monroe will have to be repaved.  Why not remove a lane and convert it for bicycle traffic, with a multiuse path for pedestrians and cyclist going through the green space?

[jaxlore]

Public Space Thumbs up!!! Whenever I am up in Detroit they have to great public space and green areas that really shine.

[thelakelander]

It would interesting to see where JTA was planning on putting their new bus stops to service the complex. Anyone like to wager it was on Monroe, right in front?

The proposed BRT station will be a block to the north at Broad & Duval.



http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jul-downtown-bus-rapid-transit-project-moving-forward

I'd suggest moving the station south and integrating it into the green space.  The more uses you can throw into a well design public space, the better chance it will become an every day center of activity (something the Northbank really lacks right now).

[dougskiles]

From my knowledge, there is no overall master plan for this area that povides a clue to a future vision for public owned properties.

This speaks to my greatest concern for the upcoming election.  Our proven inability to implement a plan.  We desperately need someone who is strong enough to handle the objectors when the time comes to put the plans into action.

[tufsu1]

guess what else the Pappas design shows....Pearl St. closed

I would argue it is far more important for "the grid" to keep Pearl open then Monroe

[dougskiles]

Why not remove a lane and convert it for bicycle traffic, with a multiuse path for pedestrians and cyclist going through the green space?

Who is up for a design session next week to layout this plan and present it to JEDC, Council and whoever else will listen?  I suggest Tuesday during lunch.

In looking at the BRT phase one plan that you posted, is it just me or does this plan almost entirely duplicate the route of the Skyway on the southbank?