JSO Shoots Unarmed Fleeing Man in the Back

[Singejoufflue]

No, I personally think most drug laws should be taken off the table.  But, he wasn't shot at for drugs.  He was shot at because the Officer thought he saw a gun in his waistband after the suspect reached in...

[JC]

No, I personally think most drug laws should be taken off the table.  But, he wasn't shot at for drugs.  He was shot at because the Officer thought he saw a gun in his waistband after the suspect reached in...

Nothing short of this human being threatening the mortality of that officer justifies shooting him in the back once. We are talking about a flawed person here, someone just like the rest of us who made a bad decision, who reacted on instinct possibly, who maybe was afraid of being busted with some drugs or maybe he hadnt paid his child support for years, maybe he had a suspended license.... Who gives a shit why he did what he did, the end result was a bad shooting and a bunch of self righteous individuals who are so insulated from their fellow man that it results in their forgetting we are talking about a human life!

[acme54321]

Henley is responsible for:

Driving without headlights on, fleeing the scene, starting a chase into the Sherwood neighborhood, driving at speeds of more than 70 mph and ignoring stop signs, driving through two homeowners' yards, backing into a JSO cruiser, crashing into a storm drain, getting out of the car, running from officers THEN reaching for something metallic at his waistband, and STILL not stopping.  

All cops are asked to make split second decisions that you and I aren't.  In this instance, given the suspects behavior, it was reasonable that after putting a neighborhood in danger, then possibly being armed, the suspect was shot.  Let me call my uncle and ask him if he ever uses "warning" shots before actually firing at the suspect.  

So, driving without headlights on?

Well that does sound positively dangerous.  Almost like a maniac.

No, but taking cops on a high speed pursuit through a neighborhood, careening through people's yard and then ramming into a cop car sure does.

That said, they probably shouldn't have shot him.  No one knows (or most likely will ever know) exactly what happened out there.  Unfortunate either way. 

[Live_Oak]

Henley is responsible for:

Driving without headlights on, fleeing the scene, starting a chase into the Sherwood neighborhood, driving at speeds of more than 70 mph and ignoring stop signs, driving through two homeowners' yards, backing into a JSO cruiser, crashing into a storm drain, getting out of the car, running from officers THEN reaching for something metallic at his waistband, and STILL not stopping.  

All cops are asked to make split second decisions that you and I aren't.  In this instance, given the suspects behavior, it was reasonable that after putting a neighborhood in danger, then possibly being armed, the suspect was shot.  Let me call my uncle and ask him if he ever uses "warning" shots before actually firing at the suspect.  

So, driving without headlights on?

Well that does sound positively dangerous.  Almost like a maniac.

No, but taking cops on a high speed pursuit through a neighborhood, careening through people's yard and then ramming into a cop car sure does.

That said, they probably shouldn't have shot him.  No one knows (or most likely will ever know) exactly what happened out there.  Unfortunate either way. 

Actually, driving without headlights at 2:30 in the morning is dangerous and suspicious.

[ChriswUfGator]

He was shot once in the back. Not eight times. Why is this still being mis-stated?

And it's not "personal responsibility" if I have to worry about everyone else, now is it?  What THAT is, is civic duty to elect a Sheriff that will hold their staff to high standards.

The officer tried to shoot him in the back 8 times. However he was such a bad shot that several missed.

So let me ask you again, is it the unarmed man's fault the cop missed? How does that change the cops actions?

[ChriswUfGator]

Henley is responsible for:

Driving without headlights on, fleeing the scene, starting a chase into the Sherwood neighborhood, driving at speeds of more than 70 mph and ignoring stop signs, driving through two homeowners' yards, backing into a JSO cruiser, crashing into a storm drain, getting out of the car, running from officers THEN reaching for something metallic at his waistband, and STILL not stopping.  

All cops are asked to make split second decisions that you and I aren't.  In this instance, given the suspects behavior, it was reasonable that after putting a neighborhood in danger, then possibly being armed, the suspect was shot.  Let me call my uncle and ask him if he ever uses "warning" shots before actually firing at the suspect.  

So, driving without headlights on?

Well that does sound positively dangerous.  Almost like a maniac.

No, but taking cops on a high speed pursuit through a neighborhood, careening through people's yard and then ramming into a cop car sure does.

That said, they probably shouldn't have shot him.  No one knows (or most likely will ever know) exactly what happened out there.  Unfortunate either way.  

Actually, driving without headlights at 2:30 in the morning is dangerous and suspicious.

Yes, so suspicious it clearly warranted an automatic death sentence?

And more dangerous than shooting unarmed people in the back?

Or more dangerous than letting 6-7 stray rounds fly through a residential neighborhood?

Am I the only one who recognizes that the real threat to public safety in this situation was JSO? This is egregious.

[ChriswUfGator]

Sorry, JC.  Let me rephrase that without the sarcasm.

JC, you don't know my family.  We were all raised with an exceptionally high "personal responsibility" index and penchant for talking negatively about people when they are standing right there, so, in my family...yeah, that's really possible. Call my aunt and ask her about her cop-murdering son.  You'll get the waterworks and her bitterness at his poor decision-making.  I would say talk to my Grandma who, up to and including the day of my Grandfather's funeral, was cursing him for being a drunk and dying of liver failure...

I am acutely aware of the historical context, but thank you for reminding me about the history of racism in law enforcement.  I am also acutely aware that there are many more African American individuals who CHOOSE not to run.  But, no, let us NOT consider, perhaps, it was the fact that he was in possession of cocaine and marijuana that led him to run.  Let us NOT consider, that this individual who had been driving recklessly, put a neighborhood in harms way by driving through people's lawns, rammed a police cruiser and then wrecked his own car, might have a weapon stashed in his waistband (a common place those are stored) as the officer saw something metallic.

I am not justifying 7 shots that went who knows where.  If an Officer fires a warning shot and you continue to run...that is YOUR poor decision making.

First off, now that you've provided some details, it doesn't sound like your family actually stressed real personal responsibility, it sounds like they only stressed the part about everyone else around them being responsible for everything bad that happened. Your aunt ranting about your nephew's decision to shoot someone is just a method for shirking her personal responsibility for raising a child without sound decision making ability and a sound moral code. That's shirking personal responsibility, not accepting it.

Your grandmother kvetching about your grandfather being a drunk is another great example, its just a way to avoid accepting the fact that there was probably something she should have done to help him get treatment and to stop enabling his alcoholism, be that the baker act or just plain moving out to avoid enabling someone's self destruction. She chose not to. That would be actual personal responsibility. What you are describing is actually a family that blames others for everything, and accepts zero personal responsibility for anything. If you think those were examples of personal responsibility, you do not understand the concept.

And secondly, you keep going on about 'warning shots.' Are you nuts?

Since when is it OK to fire live 'warning' rounds into a  residential neighborhood?

[uptowngirl]

While I am holding judgement until or if the whole story comes out, I must say drug dealers are bad for any neighborhood, if you live a life of crime it is going to turn out bad in the end for you. As a mother of a small child in the Urban Core, I hear of little kids being asked to sell or carry drugs. I know children without parents,living with their grandmothers because their parents are dead, addicted, or in jail due to drugs , a very merry Christmas for them.  I have no pity for drug dealers, I have seen the destruction of lives they are active participants in.

Where is the outrage for the drug dealers that shot an innocent mother a month ago? If they were not on the street would her children now be getting ready to celebrate Christmas with their mother? What about the 15 yr old hit by a fleeing drug dealer two years ago? Another one driving wildly in a neighborhood, killing a child on the sidewalk. Back then everyone screamed why the cops couldn't do more, some even asked why that dealer was not shot, afterall a car is considered a deadly weapon.

Personally I am sick of people whining all the time about bad doods ( he was always such a good boy) getting shot when the do bad stuff, and also whining at the cops when those same bad doods shoot innocent children sleeping in their beds. Thank goodness I am not a cop, it is a thankless no-win position.

[ChriswUfGator]

While I am holding judgement until or if the whole story comes out, I must say drug dealers are bad for any neighborhood, if you live a life of crime it is going to turn out bad in the end for you. As a mother of a small child in the Urban Core, I hear of little kids being asked to sell or carry drugs. I know children without parents,living with their grandmothers because their parents are dead, addicted, or in jail due to drugs , a very merry Christmas for them.  I have no pity for drug dealers, I have seen the destruction of lives they are active participants in.

Where is the outrage for the drug dealers that shot an innocent mother a month ago? If they were not on the street would her children now be getting ready to celebrate Christmas with their mother? What about the 15 yr old hit by a fleeing drug dealer two years ago? Another one driving wildly in a neighborhood, killing a child on the sidewalk. Back then everyone screamed why the cops couldn't do more, some even asked why that dealer was not shot, afterall a car is considered a deadly weapon.

Personally I am sick of people whining all the time about bad doods ( he was always such a good boy) getting shot when the do bad stuff, and also whining at the cops when those same bad doods shoot innocent children sleeping in their beds. Thank goodness I am not a cop, it is a thankless no-win position.

Well since you've just lectured us on taking 'the whole story' into account, perhaps you'd care to provide a link or direct me to any portion of the news coverage that says this unarmed man was a drug dealer?

Or like sinjouflue's concept of personal responsibility, did your admonishment not apply to yourself?

[uptowngirl]

Touche Chris.

I assumed if you are out at 2AM driving around with your lights off, fleeing in an automobile that is now considered a deadly weapon, crashing into stuff and fleeing on foot from police, found with drugs on you..... you are most likely a dealer. I am doubtful he was getting ready for church early, but I could most certainly be guilty of bad assumptions and should hold judgement until I know more. BUT, even if he was on his way to church (with drugs in his pocket), he became a risk to the public as soon as he ran from the police. I gave a very specific example of a young boy killed under very similar circumstances here in our neighborhood. A good boy, a good son, a good student, and loved dearly by his parents. Dead  because of one idiot running from the cops.  If this man had hit anyone while fleeing we would most likley not be having this debate, luckily it was 2AM and not 2PM.

(BTW I totally agreed that the incident in the Burger King Drive through was outrageous, I think this is a different situation that's all).

[BridgeTroll]

While I am holding judgement until or if the whole story comes out

Most reasonable people are doing exactly that.

[Live_Oak]

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-12-21/story/family-disputes-jacksonville-police-shooting

This article says that the metallic object turned out to be scales used to weigh drugs.  And he's been arrested before on cocaine trafficking charges. 

You honestly think this guy wasn't a drug dealer?

[north miami]

To shoot 'in the back' elicits all sorts of images and assumption of unfair.

Last year I was up front and personal close witness to JSO shooting at Lambs Yacht Center.

Four JSO shots...in the back.And quite justified.And all on film.

So yes- inclination to reserve judgement.

[BridgeTroll]

By my count... 13 people have posted on this subject to this point.  Seems to me like most people are withholding their judgement and opinions until more facts emerge and the investigation of the incident is completed.  Seems the prudent thing to do...

[ChriswUfGator]

Touche Chris.

I assumed if you are out at 2AM driving around with your lights off, fleeing in an automobile that is now considered a deadly weapon, crashing into stuff and fleeing on foot from police, found with drugs on you..... you are most likely a dealer. I am doubtful he was getting ready for church early, but I could most certainly be guilty of bad assumptions and should hold judgement until I know more. BUT, even if he was on his way to church (with drugs in his pocket), he became a risk to the public as soon as he ran from the police. I gave a very specific example of a young boy killed under very similar circumstances here in our neighborhood. A good boy, a good son, a good student, and loved dearly by his parents. Dead  because of one idiot running from the cops.  If this man had hit anyone while fleeing we would most likley not be having this debate, luckily it was 2AM and not 2PM.

(BTW I totally agreed that the incident in the Burger King Drive through was outrageous, I think this is a different situation that's all).

I just felt I had to point out that "found with drugs" usually just means he had a dime bag on him or something. If he was a really some dealer with a kilo of coke in the trunk, then you can be sure JSO would have wasted no time putting that in their press release since it would mitigate the public relations problem they have now that they shot an unarmed guy in the back.

And FWIW, I have forgotten to turn on my headlights at night many times, a lot of people do that. Eventually someone flashes you and you remember to turn them on. That's not a capital offense. This is so common that most of the newer cars are coming with automatic headlights for exactly this reason. That doesn't make you a bad person. This guy just panicked and ran for whatever reason, it certainly wasn't a wise decision, and he should be (and will be) rightfully charged with fleeing and eluding, which is a felony. But none of that justifies JSO's shooting an unarmed man in the back, or sending multiple live rounds through a residential neighborhood.

The cop already had his description, his license plate, hell at the end they had his whole vehicle, it's not like they couldn't have just issued a warrant and picked him up later. The problem is some of these guys want to play Billy Badass and letting someone disobey them is a more offensive proposition than shooting unarmed people in the back and discharging multiple live rounds in a residential neighborhood. This was terrible decision making, and the threat to public safety in this incident was actually the conduct of JSO. That is a problem, and it needs to be addressed.