Anti-Rail Republicans Ideologically Oppose Trains

[Ocklawaha]

Actually, since the local agency was brought up, one of my pet peeves is that JTA - JACKSONVILLE IN GENERAL builds then maintains roads that look more like a back lot for "Sanford and Son," then they do Worth Avenue or Rodeo Drive.  This is one area where Jacksonville could LEARN from WORLD GOLF VILLAGE, NOCATEE, PALENCIA, SAWGRASS etc. We are being passed by even in the livability of our highways (if there is such a thing) and it can cost us dearly.

A few years ago a major corporation narrowed down their expansion needs to Oklahoma City and a few others... OKC put out the red carpet all week, it was HUGE. What no one expected was the announcement after the weekend. The company CEO had simply driven all around the city in his rental car on Sunday, he said on Monday, "We will NOT be moving to a city that hasn't enough pride to pick up the litter...no to OKC!" This has Jacksonville written all over it. How many thousands of Donald Trumps have blown through our town on the interstate and wanted to vomit?

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Said it before.....a plan,a vision and the means to fund it! JTA may very well have people with vision and the expertise to do the job right, but the powers that be are just like the Republicans.....the Party of No! What the heck ever happened to the good for all? Maybe the next mayor can do better than the zero we have leading the way today............I sure hope so!

[NotNow]

I like to think that NO is the right answer when money is being spent irresponsibly.  I won't bore you with a list of incredibly wastful spending of taxpayer money by the city, state, and Federal governments, we all know it.  Responsible spending, along with the lawful authority to spend, are what most of us are looking for.

[CS Foltz]

Might be just me, but some "Ethics", in black and white set in stone would go a long way to bringing things under control? When someone like Corriene continues on and the voters do not take heed, not much anyone can do! Term limits might help also, tranparency with all government agencies...........not to mention people voted into office that actually represent the people who put them into office........but thats just me!

[yapp1850]

hey ock

if the state drop occ station and move it to  linix station  then you  connection with sunrail,linix bus and amtrak

[tufsu1]

the folks in Orlando are working really hard finding a way to directly connect HSR, SunRail, and Lynx

[Ocklawaha]

hey ock

if the state drop occ station and move it to  linix station  then you  connection with sunrail,linix bus and amtrak

If they did it would be better for the whole project, though it will still fail as far as "making money." You also need to give up the parking garage in Tampa and run into Union Station, since the new BRT will connect it with downtown Tampa. Doing so would allow HSR to feed and feed off of AMTRAK, and any Commuter Rail networks at the end points without having to build more miles of expensive HSR track.

TU, they aren't trying hard enough! It's called CSX! USE IT to access BOTH end point terminals. CHURCH STREET STATION/LYNX IN ORLANDO and TAMPA UNION STATION in Tampa.

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

but if  they did pick  tampa union,  station  has limited parking and limited land around the station.

[yapp1850]

the only benfits for that area is the people that will be living at  encore tampa down the street

[Ocklawaha]

the only benfits for that area is the people that will be living at  encore tampa down the street

It is also the only station on the direct BRT route into downtown (planned), and direct bus connections to the so-called "Transit Hub", which is actually a parking garage with buses. Bottom line it will have similar bus connections with little effort, and out where the express area once was is a perfect opportunity for intercity - bus service. The Light Rail will have some tracks as well as Commuter Trains will go in as well, mixing with Amtrak at the platforms.

What a station it would be when a passenger could walk 20' feet and go from AMTRAK to LRT to BUS to HSR to BRT to COMMUTER RAIL to streetcar, all that's missing is the garage.  The station is plenty big enough and so is the track area, which considering the length looks like it is larger then the station they plan to use.


OCKLAWAHA

[middleman]

Hi all... I've recently discovered this forum, and as a "transportation-geek", I have absolutely loved the various threads I've read through. Anyway, I'm ready to chime in on the HSR topic, although its somewhat intimidating seeing some of you have thousands of posts 

So, here goes... the current proposal for HSR in Florida basically runs the I-4 corridor from McCoy airport to a transporation hub in downtown Tampa. As I understand the argument against this route is that McCoy, being several miles from the population center in Orlando, is not going to be convenient enough for Orlando to Tampa commuters to save any time or money over their normal automobile treks between the two cities.

My issue with this scenario is that the new HSR link isn't meant for Orlando to Tampa commuters. I mean, how many commuters really make this trek? I wish I had the data on this, maybe there really is a lot of commuters doing this, but bear with me. It seems to me this rail link is more for the folks flying into MCO and needing a fast rail link into the Disney area and Polk county areas. Likewise on the Tampa end the HSR link seems like an obvious transportation alternative for those commuting into downtown Tampa from Polk county and western Hillsborough county.   

The questions of whether such a rail link is efficient or economical are real. But given that an HSR link between McCoy and Disney is likely to be popular, assuming the cost isn't too high, there is some hope that the new HSR link will be a success. The other thing to consider here is that you have to start somewhere, and the MaCoy to Tampa link seems like the most obvious place in Florida to start. The solution for central Orlando commuters is commuter rail from northern communities to the transportation hub in McCoy, which I believe is currently in the works.

On the other hand, I agree with those of you that think the money could be better spent on local transportation projects, like light-rail commuter options in the JAX area. Hope we have good luck with that.

...jim

[tufsu1]

the only benfits for that area is the people that will be living at  encore tampa down the street

It is also the only station on the direct BRT route into downtown (planned), and direct bus connections to the so-called "Transit Hub", which is actually a parking garage with buses. Bottom line it will have similar bus connections with little effort, and out where the express area once was is a perfect opportunity for intercity - bus service.

sorry...but I don't think one can say bus aceess at Tampa Union Station (with a few bus lines) is similar to that of the planned HSR staion (next to HART's main bus terminal).   

[Ocklawaha]

Hi all... I've recently discovered this forum...
...I'm ready to chime in on the HSR topic, although its somewhat intimidating seeing some of you have thousands of posts 

WELCOME ABOARD, please don't feel intimidated, some of us were born with a gift of sarcasm - others had to go to school for it.

As I understand the argument against this route is that McCoy, being several miles from the population center in Orlando, is not going to be convenient enough for Orlando to Tampa commuters to save any time or money over their normal automobile treks between the two cities.

BINGO! Have the conductor give this man a cigar! ...It's for Disney and nothing else, and why am I being asked to pay for it?

...the new HSR link isn't meant for Orlando to Tampa commuters. I mean, how many commuters really make this trek? I wish I had the data on this, maybe there really is a lot of commuters doing this, but bear with me. It seems to me this rail link is more for the folks flying into MCO and needing a fast rail link into the Disney

He's on a roll boys and girls!

Likewise on the Tampa end the HSR link seems like an obvious transportation alternative for those commuting into downtown Tampa from Polk county and western Hillsborough county. 

Agreed! IF it actually went through the communities of Haines City(9), Lake Alfred(7), Auburndale(9), Fussels Corner(7), Crystal Lake(6), Combee(5), Lakeland (3), Plant City (1) and Dover (3).  But it doesn't and those little numbers are the shortest distance to the HSR line (not neccessarly the stations, if there is one). Remember your on a train, not in a car, so when the platform is vacant THAT'S HOW FAR YOUR GOING TO WALK, ride a bus, or take a taxi. Walking and/or a bus ride will negate any speed advantage of HSR and a taxi will kill the fare advantage.

The questions of whether such a rail link is efficient or economical are real. But given that an HSR link between McCoy and Disney is likely to be popular, assuming the cost isn't too high, there is some hope that the new HSR link will be a success.

The cost is in the BILLIONS, and THEY are framing success as "PROFIT," which is going to quickly change to some arbitrary passenger load to save face. We ALL know that it won't make money, and we shouldn't expect it to, but the BIG LIE is one of the reasons this project could bring down the whole HSR house.

The other thing to consider here is that you have to start somewhere, and the MaCoy to Tampa link seems like the most obvious place in Florida to start.

EXACTLY, just don't start off wrong and with statements that are patently false. The minions that buy into the "it for Florida residents", "salvation from I-4 traffic," "kills sprawl," "will be profitable," or even "faster then I-4," are going to either be greatly disappointed or looking for someones head. We have a regular poster here that is totally deluded by the false claims.

Also, not many businessmen or residents go to the Orlando Airport if they want to catch a train within Florida, proving again that it's NOT going to benefit residents even a little.

The solution for central Orlando commuters is commuter rail from northern communities to the transportation hub in McCoy, which I believe is currently in the works.

Making OIA into a multimodal "hub" works great for flights arriving from "Anaheim, Azusa and Cucamonga," but as a surface transportation hub for Central Florida residents it makes about as much sense as Jacksonville building it's new JRTC in Hilliard.

...I agree with those of you that think the money could be better spent on local transportation projects, like light-rail commuter options in the JAX area. Hope we have good luck with that.

...jim

As I said, Welcome Aboard my friend! Hopefully we get to talk some sense into Governor Scott before these shovel ready boys run us off a cliff in an orgasm of "free money" spending. You are right a Florida version of the RAIL CALIFORNIA program would not only serve many more people, it would be cheaper and show us where people want to ride. The RAIL FLORIDA system could go with a new technology like Talgo and work with CSX-FEC-NS to greatly increase capacity and track speeds... and we could do it all for less then half the amount we are about to blow on Mickey's Toontown, Fantasyland Railroad.

Hey Jim, THAT WAS FUN!

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

hey ock

see this why tampa high speed station is better than tampa union station. main bus station is across the street and csx will not allow light rail on their  property between ybor city and union station becauce it has be  50 ft from the main line or 25 ft with a  barrier wall so csx no lease or buy it look like hart is look at palm ave  to go through city

[Ocklawaha]

the only benfits for that area is the people that will be living at  encore tampa down the street

It is also the only station on the direct BRT route into downtown (planned), and direct bus connections to the so-called "Transit Hub", which is actually a parking garage with buses. Bottom line it will have similar bus connections with little effort, and out where the express area once was is a perfect opportunity for intercity - bus service.

sorry...but I don't think one can say bus aceess at Tampa Union Station (with a few bus lines) is similar to that of the planned HSR staion (next to HART's main bus terminal).   

Missing UNION STATION TAMPA? "Big mistake, big mistake, HUGE!"


Look where the every-10-minute-bus is going... UNION STATION

Why not TU? Buses are F L E X I B L E remember?

Marion Center accommodates 14 buses at peak load in the turnouts, and roughly 4 blocks (counting the 4 sides of the city block it sits on) in length or about 1,200 front feet. Union station has 570' frontage on Nebraska Avenue, 1,780' along the Cross-Town Expressway with parking underneath. Not to mention another 2,300' of frontage on Nick Nuccio Parkway. Oh and the BRT to downtown? Right through Union Station area into downtown then backtracks to Marion Center.

Why reinvent the wheel?

OCKLAWAHA