Anti-Rail Republicans Ideologically Oppose Trains

[FayeforCure]

Wisconsin and Ohio weren’t the only two states who elected right-wing extremists as governor on November 2. Florida elected Rick Scott, whose stance on high speed rail is hard to pin down. In recent days, however, Scott has been more vocal in his criticisms of the project, leading the Orlando Sentinel to attack Scott in a devastating editorial. After speculating about Scott’s motives in possibly opposing HSR â€" a desire to make President Barack Obama look bad, a desire to please his right-wing base which ideologically opposes trains â€" they point out that Florida is basically getting bullet trains for free.

Florida’s $2.6 billion high-speed project would be paid for almost entirely by the feds. Washington has agreed to send Florida all but $280 million of its cost. And some companies vying to run the trains indicate they’d cover the state’s share. They’re willing to do that because they believe running the Orlando-Tampa route would give them a leg up on operating a second high-speed rail line from Orlando to Miami â€" and other fast trains outside Florida.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie said he feared his state would have to pay for costly rail-project overruns. But meetings last month between Florida transportation officials and companies wanting to operate the trains reportedly revealed the companies’ willingness to cover any construction overages.

Wisconsin Gov.-elect Scott Walker said his state would have had to pay too much to operate and maintain its rail line. But the company that runs high-speed trains in Florida would have to operate and maintain them for 30 years. The state, Florida DOT’s Kevin Thibault told us, wouldn’t have to pick up the cost.

So this is pretty ridiculous of Scott to even consider turning this down. But because he and his party are opposed to a 21st century economy and 21st century technology, he may turn down over $2 billion in federal funding. Some of that money could find its way here to California, as did the money Wisconsin and Ohio gave up. But the FRA and the USDOT would have to act quickly â€" if the money is awarded by the end of this year, it makes it harder for Republicans in the House to undo that funding in 2011.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood should demand that Scott tell him yes or no in the next few days. If he says no, then move the money to the states that want it â€" including us here in California.

http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/12/florida-to-follow-wisconsin-and-ohio-in-abandoning-hsr-funds/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=florida-to-follow-wisconsin-and-ohio-in-abandoning-hsr-funds

Metrojacksonville still claims rail infrastructure is not a partisan issue.

Well Republicans who are Anti-Rail DO make it a partisan issue!!!

Pro-Rail folks would do well to quit casting votes for Republicans!!

[tufsu1]

and as I've pointed out before, Ray LaHood is a Republican....so not all of them are anti-rail

[Ocklawaha]

STEPHENDARE, Thanks for setting the record straight and explaining our stand at MJ.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me in basic railroad economics what makes them think this thing would work ie:"make money?" Orlando - Tampa on the route they plan and the way they have projected schedules fails to beat a 63 VW bug for a businessman from Winter Park, Winter Garden, Winter Haven, Oviedo, Lake Mary, Maitland, Casselberry...etc headed over to downtown Tampa.

It's almost an over an hour longer in trip time by the time one gets to the God forsaken Orlando Airport, parks, and waits for the train...

It's many dollars more when one calculates the $30 one-way fare x 2.

It's even more $ if one needs to rent a car in Tampa.

So someone please EXPLAIN why this is the intelligent way to get into the HSR game?  Just please don't tell me "because it will make money," or "because the rail manufacturing industry will move to Florida," or "Because Julia Robert's says it will be great."

There is a hint in the article posted by Faye that suggests the corporations in the race understand Orlando-Tampa will fail. "They’re willing to do that because they believe running the Orlando-Tampa route would give them a leg up on operating a second high-speed rail line from Orlando to Miami â€" and other fast trains outside Florida."

So they UNDERSTAND that the only money that is going to be made is on the longer stage lengths of Miami-Jacksonville, and on out of state...   And if that is the case, Florida is starting off on the wrong leg of a horse that will go lame as soon as a hostile administration takes charge... Republican, Democrat, Tea Party, Independent, Anarchist, Nazi, whatever!

So why are we racing off to a dance with a ball and chain around our feet, and believe me the I-4, Orlando-Tampa HSR is going to be the ball and chain.

OCKLAWAHA
Railroad Consultant-Planner-Historian

[Ocklawaha]

YEAH WELL, Hugo Chavez, is a Communist, and he LOVES rail... but he's still crazy as hell.

"Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez is looking to promote rail initiatives among Chinese investors, an official from state-controlled rail company Instituto de Ferrocarriles del Estado (IFE) told BNamericas."


NAZI RENDERING

...and Dorpmuller was the Nazi Minister of Railways, and while he operated trains to the death camps, he also proposed some of the most fantastic railroad projects of all time... GIANT HSR TRAINS, the size of small cruise ships!

But I still wouldn't vote for either of them.

OCKLAWAHA

[spuwho]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me in basic railroad economics what makes them think this thing would work ie:"make money?" Orlando - Tampa on the route they plan and the way they have projected schedules fails to beat a 63 VW bug for a businessman from Winter Park, Winter Garden, Winter Haven, Oviedo, Lake Mary, Maitland, Casselberry...etc headed over to downtown Tampa.


OCKLAWAHA
Railroad Consultant-Planner-Historian

It's the irony of the HSR big sell. Promise stops to everyone to get it approved, then remove the stops after in the name of efficiency.

Illinois HSR is going through the same hassle but at least they were honest about it up front. Chicago to St Louis will have 3 stops between and no more. Joliet, Bloomington and Alton.  As you can imagine the state reps in the cities in between (especially Pontiac) are livid at the idea of a state subsidy when it makes no stops in their district. Sounds similar to the Amtrak problem.

[BridgeTroll]

And democrats cant be bothered to vote...

[Garden guy]

exactly...i put shame on democrates for not getting out and doing what we are supposed to do. Then main problem with democrates is they are too nice and try not to make too much noise...polite....the squeeky wheel gets the oil i guess..

[Ocklawaha]

Issues such as Amtrak are not so divided on party lines that one should not vote for a Republican if he or she believes that person would offer support. There ARE some Republicans out there that do support rail, and light-rail, and HSR, and infrastructure etc... Stephen nixes silly posts that seem to have no other motive but negative speech. Even those Republican or Tea Party members that currently don't support rail might be won over with logical arguments that explain in detail the benefits. So even a party that traditionally has seen all Amtrak investment as socialism, and all highway investment as capitalism, has their rebels. Rebels I will continue to cheer and support.


OCKLAWAHA

Sponsored by Senators Frank R. Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, and Trent Lott, Republican of Mississippi, the bill passed yesterday would authorize about $10 billion to the railroad over six years and would also set up a $1.4 billion fund for matching grants to states that want to sponsor passenger trains. Several Amtrak trains, including the Maine-sponsored Downeaster route between Boston and Portland, are supported by individual states.

If President Bush signs it into law, the Lautenberg-Lott bill would represent a drastic change of Amtrak's fortunes

In contrast to the destructive efforts of the US Government's George W. Bush administration and various prominent Republicans in the US Congress, such as Arizona Senator John McCain, a number of key Republican leaders acknowledge the value and potential of Amtrak â€" the national rail passenger system â€" as a critical link in America's mobility system. Certainly, Texas Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is at the forefront of this leadership.

[tufsu1]

Again republicans prove thier unevolved ways...the world has proven that trains are better yet they still scream no no no...when are to evolved humans to tell the to shut their mouth and go home and sleep or what ever they do....with the republicans in this state...they keep us at least 50 years behind all other states...thanks guys...

did you notice that Ray LaHood (the man who is pushing HSR as Secretary of USDOT) is a Republican...what do you have to say about that?

[BridgeTroll]

Issues such as Amtrak are not so divided on party lines that one should not vote for a Republican if he or she believes that person would offer support. There ARE some Republicans out there that do support rail, and light-rail, and HSR, and infrastructure etc... Stephen nixes silly posts that seem to have no other motive but negative speech. Even those Republican or Tea Party members that currently don't support rail might be won over with logical arguments that explain in detail the benefits. So even a party that traditionally has seen all Amtrak investment as socialism, and all highway investment as capitalism, has their rebels. Rebels I will continue to cheer and support.

Great post Ock!  Apparently I am both a rebel AND a cult member... Who knew?   A less partisan read of Fayes article reveals that republicans are not ideologically opposed to rail... they are fiscally opposed.  Us cultists and rebels need to convince them to move towards rail... NOT ostracize and mock.  Fayes method is counterproductive and only makes her feel better about herself.

[BridgeTroll]

  Good morning Stephen!  We agree with each other more than we both think...

[NotNow]

Ock,

I suppose that I am the suburban Republican of the group here.  From my perspective, I would like to see a rail electric trolley from the stadium, down Bay, Water, to Riverside.  It would be FUN.  I would like to see high speed rail to Miami AND to Atlanta and NO.  It would make the 6 to 9 hour drive less attractive for a visit to south Fl or points North and West.  I recently tried to take a rail vacation and found that I had to travel WAY out West or North to do so.  IMO, for the majority of Floridians, rail..whether trolleys, high speed, or trans continental, must be FUN and enjoyable.  It must not be much more expensive than driving.  I am not opposed to paying for such infrastructure, but I AM opposed to establishing lines that go from nowhere to nowhere.  Our airport, convention center, sports complex, and other important locations are not connected by what we have now.  Buses are not FUN and I won't be riding them anytime soon. 

Now, where am I wrong?

[Ocklawaha]

I don't see any "wrong," in any of your statements, and I agree within the limitations of practical application that we need to offer service or better service throughout the city, state and Dixie in general. For example I will NOT support a "flying train" from an inaccessible airport, to an amusement park to a parking garage if it was completely free and they sent every Floridian a free turkey. It isn't practical... DRIVE or pick up the phone 1-800-USA-RAIL, because right now we have a single train a day each way on a fairly close route and its not full. If people want to ride a train, they generally don't go to an airport - its going to be a tough sell to prove THAT demand and counting cars on I-4 isn't it.  Like Wal-Mart, you don't prove demand for a store in Lulu, Florida, until you at least see a yellow flashing light installed and a Gate Station in "downtown." This should NOT be another Yankeefied "Damn the torpedoes - Full speed ahead," sort of endeavor.

As for JTA, I've said several times they have a couple of rising star planners that are EXCELLENT. I'm sure they feel it's personal when I unload on the agency, but its not. As a transit operator they have proved only that they can shrink a bus system and build a riderless train.

LIGHT RAIL JACKSONVILLE? Oh yes we could, think BEACHES-ARLINGTON-DOWNTOWN-CEDAR HILLS-ORANGE PARK.

Radiating from that core, at JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL would be a network of commuter trains, streetcars and buses, and a rider filled Skyway.

Yeah, think we agree.


OCKLAWAHA

[NotNow]

So the problem isn't us cheap, suburban Republicans, but instead proper vision,planning and execution?

[NotNow]

Cool.  I'm with ya'll on this issue then.