Florida High Speed Rail - The Progressive Way

[tufsu1]

Would they be willing to lend money for some bus rapid transit?

China might...if it was for that crazy hovercraft bus that floats over the cars!

[Ocklawaha]

...And Senator Nelson is telling Scott that with the new money, Florida won't have to ante up any more cash... How much you want to bet these boys are about to take a bath in a tub of red ink!

Splish-Splash

OCKLAWAHA

[fieldafm]

You have to figure.. these private investors(say GE Capital for instance) are getting indications of government backing if their investments flop.

The more and more you dig into Florida's HSR, the more you realize it's corporate welfare and an unecessary burden on Florida taxpayers.

[tufsu1]

I haven't seen anything that bails out the private investors...please share

[tufsu1]

As an addition to my comment above, this article implies that the private investors will take on much of the ridership risk....which is why they are all likely to do their own investment-grade ridership study before putting in a final bid

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/corporate/florida-sidetracks-rail-but-international-builders-are-all-aboard/1140019

[thelakelander]

Dockery said the private companies are talking about putting $300 million to $400 million on the table, which would cover the $200 million for construction not covered by the federal government.

She's particularly intrigued, she said, by the possibility of a train car manufacturing plant opening in Florida that could supply high speed rail projects throughout the country.

"So for no investment," she said. "We get an incredible return."

I'm not a big fan of the plan as proposed but I am starting to come around to agree with Paula Dockery on some things regarding it.  If there are private companies out there willing to share the risks, throw in hundreds of millions of their own money and possibly open railcar manufacturing plants in the state, jump on it.

[JeffreyS]

As the Atlanta to Jacksonville leg is getting traction as part of the SEHSR it may be smarter to turn the second leg north instead of south to Miami.

[Ocklawaha]

Be better for high speed trains is they canned the Orlando-Tampa nonsense and built straight up the coast.


OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

America 2050 Ranking of Short, Medium and Long Corridors makes the case for Florida!!

[thelakelander]

Backers of high-speed rail deride report critical of plan

Supporters of the planned high-speed train between Orlando and Tampa are firing back at the authors of a study critical of the $2.7 billion project, saying the report contained "half-truths and outright falsities."

And, train backers say, Florida transit officials already have proposed and intend to enforce strong contract language that would protect taxpayers against cost overruns or spending money on operation and maintenance costs.

Robert Poole, a co-author of the report filed for the libertarian think tank Reason Foundation, warned last week that Florida taxpayers could lose billions of dollars on high-speed rail because many train projects have gone over budget and drawn fewer riders than projected.

He recommended the same safeguards that state officials say have been a part of the plan for the train for years.

But Poole said this week that he is "very skeptical" the state could be held harmless. If Florida can avoid such responsibilities, he said, "they have my blessing. Go ahead and do it."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-01-14/news/os-high-speed-rail-response-20110114_1_high-speed-rail-high-speed-train-train-projects

[tufsu1]

America 2050 Ranking of Short, Medium and Long Corridors makes the case for Florida!!

not sure a score of less than 14 "makes the case" when others are 18 or 19

[FayeforCure]

Once again tufsu1, the 50 million visitor riders aren't included in that score. If only 5% of them ride ie 2.5 million riders..........we will easily meet projected ridership of 2.4 million passengers.

From lakelander's posted article in the Orlando Sentinel:

Poole served on Scott's transition team looking at transportation issues but did not prepare the Reason report for the governor. Poole said he has not discussed the 24-page paper with Scott.


Supporters were upset by the study and maintain that Poole is little more than an agent of road builders and auto interests who can be counted on to present "ambiguously formulated fears" casting trains in the worst light possible.

Ross Capon, president of the pro-transit nonprofit National Association of Railroad Passengers, called Poole and his co-author Wendell Cox "hired guns."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-01-14/news/os-high-speed-rail-response-20110114_1_high-speed-rail-high-speed-train-train-projects

[Doctor_K]

Once again tufsu1, the 50 million visitor riders aren't included in that score. If only 5% of them ride ie 2.5 million riders..........we will easily meet projected ridership of 2.4 million passengers.

Do we even know where it's going?  From where to where?  From the looks of it, the route (and therefore endpoints) haven't been determined.  You're going to have a hard sell getting 2.5 million riders on it if it doesn't connect to any other form of transit.

[tufsu1]

I agree Faye....I was just suggesting that the report you cited doesn't "make the case".

[tufsu1]

Once again tufsu1, the 50 million visitor riders aren't included in that score. If only 5% of them ride ie 2.5 million riders..........we will easily meet projected ridership of 2.4 million passengers.

Do we even know where it's going?  From where to where?  From the looks of it, the route (and therefore endpoints) haven't been determined.  You're going to have a hard sell getting 2.5 million riders on it if it doesn't connect to any other form of transit.

From downtown Tampa through Lakeland, Disney, I-Drive, and finally the Orlando airport.

And while the transit systems we have may not be ideal, there are local transit connections existing at all the stops....and in fact, Disney runs the largest transit system in Florida