Courthouse project approved

[thelakelander]

By BETH KORMANIK,
The Times-Union

Not wanting to waste any more time, the Jacksonville City Council approved a $350 million county courthouse complex Tuesday night, boosting the project's budget by nearly $100 million.

Mayor John Peyton and Chief Judge Donald Moran advocated for the new plan, which passed 12-2.

Councilmen Bill Bishop and Art Graham voted against it after a quick debate.

"We do need a new courthouse, but this is the wrong way to do it," said Bishop, an architect.

He criticized the building plans as "inefficient for downtown land use" because they are too spread out.

That may be true, Councilman Warren Jones said, but it's time to move on with the project.

"By delaying this project, we're making the same mistake we made four to five years ago, because the cost of the project goes up every month," he said.

The council also decided to devote any proceeds from the sale of the current riverfront courthouse and the City Hall annex toward paying for the new construction.

Duval County voters originally approved building a $190 million County Courthouse eight years ago as part of the Better Jacksonville Plan sales tax increase. Since then, costs have risen and other complications have followed, leading Peyton to call the project "snakebitten."

Tuesday's council vote increases the budget from the $263.5 million that was authorized for the project in 2006.

The complex includes an 800,000-square-foot building for both criminal and civil courts, converting the old federal courthouse into the State Attorney's Office and moving the Public Defender's Office to the Ed Ball building.

City officials estimate the complex could be finished by the time Peyton leaves office June 30, 2011.

This story can be found on Jacksonville.com at http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/042308/met_271204928.shtml.

[thelakelander]

The council could have approved the project with conditions to ensure that the design made the most of the land it will sit on.  They also could have placed a condition requiring the city to sell additional blocks of courthouse land to help make up the costs, place property back on the tax rolls and encourage dense downtown infill.  I like Councilman Bishop.  It sounds like he gets it.  I guess that's what happens when you're educated on a subject, such as land use.  It would do the city and the rest of the council good to take a few classes on urban design and the positive benefits of it with downtown development.

[fsujax]

Can't say that I disagree with Bishop.  Glad to see it moving forwad at least.

[billbo]

The council could have approved the project with conditions to ensure that the design made the most of the land it will sit on.  They also could have placed a condition requiring the city to sell additional blocks of courthouse land to help make up the costs, place property back on the tax rolls and encourage dense downtown infill.  I like Councilman Bishop.  It sounds like he gets it.  I guess that's what happens when you're educated on a subject, such as land use.  It would do the city and the rest of the council good to take a few classes on urban design and the positive benefits of it with downtown development.

Well, now that it's a done deal (hopefully) what should the city do with the county courthouse?  I wouldn't be opposed to continuing to make Bay street the entertainment district.  The possibilities are very enticing.

[Jason]

Can't say that I disagree with Bishop.  Glad to see it moving forwad at least.

Ditto.

Now show us the plans already!

[thelakelander]

The council could have approved the project with conditions to ensure that the design made the most of the land it will sit on.  They also could have placed a condition requiring the city to sell additional blocks of courthouse land to help make up the costs, place property back on the tax rolls and encourage dense downtown infill.  I like Councilman Bishop.  It sounds like he gets it.  I guess that's what happens when you're educated on a subject, such as land use.  It would do the city and the rest of the council good to take a few classes on urban design and the positive benefits of it with downtown development.

Well, now that it's a done deal (hopefully) what should the city do with the county courthouse?  I wouldn't be opposed to continuing to make Bay street the entertainment district.  The possibilities are very enticing.

They'll issue an RFP about a year or so before the new courthouse nears completion.  I wouldn't be suprised if Hyatt expands their convention facilities on the site with a little bit of retail/entertainment uses on the Bay Street side.

[Jason]

That's what I'd like to see.

Maybe I should send over a copy of the renderings I did of a convention center on that site....

[billbo]

The council could have approved the project with conditions to ensure that the design made the most of the land it will sit on.  They also could have placed a condition requiring the city to sell additional blocks of courthouse land to help make up the costs, place property back on the tax rolls and encourage dense downtown infill.  I like Councilman Bishop.  It sounds like he gets it.  I guess that's what happens when you're educated on a subject, such as land use.  It would do the city and the rest of the council good to take a few classes on urban design and the positive benefits of it with downtown development.

Well, now that it's a done deal (hopefully) what should the city do with the county courthouse?  I wouldn't be opposed to continuing to make Bay street the entertainment district.  The possibilities are very enticing.

They'll issue an RFP about a year or so before the new courthouse nears completion.  I wouldn't be suprised if Hyatt expands their convention facilities on the site with a little bit of retail/entertainment uses on the Bay Street side.

Well, that would be good to have more hotel rooms downtown, but of course we'd all like more things to do.  I understand that the Hyatt already has a decent sized convention room, do you think that there is any chance the city could coerce them to double it's size for a more reasonable selling price on the county courthouse?  Then maybe we could do something to the Prime Osborn, to make it a little more functionable.

[thelakelander]

I don't think they would be building more hotel rooms.  Hyatt wants to add to their convention space, making that site the premier convention facility in downtown.  If that were to happen, the Prime Osborn could be converted into something else, like a transportation museum and terminal.

[Steve]

Or we could just demolish it like we do with most historic buildings downtown.

[fightingosprey07]

Does this mean that the council approved the latest courthouse design, or that they approved spending 350 million on the courthouse project?

[thelakelander]

Good question.  I believe they just approved spending 350 million.  The DDRB would be responsible for reviewing and approving the final design.

[Steve]

The DDRB would be responsible for reviewing and approving the final design.

As stringent as they have been with big tough folks like Community Connections, Berkman Plaza II, and retail in the parking garages over the years, I'm sure the'll go to battle with Peyton over this courthouse.

[jeh1980]

I don't think they would be building more hotel rooms.  Hyatt wants to add to their convention space, making that site the premier convention facility in downtown.  If that were to happen, the Prime Osborn could be converted into something else, like a transportation museum and terminal.

Or we could just demolish it like we do with most historic buildings downtown.

 
Let's not be ridiculous (In all respect)! They are not gonna touch that building with any wrecking ball. There are lots of other cities that did the same thing...probably worse! We do however need more hotel space though.

[Steve]

I was kidding - I will say that that building is probably petty safe from demolition.

I think the best thing to do would be to move the convention center to the courthouse site, then take the existing convention center, and try to compact that sprawling transit center.  This would in turn free up more land for development.