You need two topic titles, education, why parents are always to blame

[JUSTDAVE]

whatever I ever suggested commented on implied or even hinted at on metjax refering to education immediately one certain teacher would comment that uncaring parents where THE PROBLEM. Please give her a subject title all her own.  call one realizing the rest of the world isn't perfect lets be constructive. and call hers education is doomed parents don't care.

[jbm32206]

whatever I ever suggested commented on implied or even hinted at on metjax refering to education immediately one certain teacher would comment that uncaring parents where THE PROBLEM. Please give her a subject title all her own.  call one realizing the rest of the world isn't perfect lets be constructive. and call hers education is doomed parents don't care.

It's a shame that you can't handle the fact, that someone who is on the inside looking out, happens to know first hand that the lack of parenting and parent involvement, ARE the core issues when it comes to education. If it weren't for those of us hell-bent on trying to place all of the blame on the teachers, instead of seeing the whole picture and what an inticate factor parenting is in relation to the education process...then there would be constructive and meaningful moves in the right direction.

I never said that teachers should be without liability, but not the only factor to blame. You speak as if I were closed minded, yet, you're the one who cannot see past your own views. When asked what were your suggestions, you never responded. I still haven't read anything posted by you, that's offered any constructive suggestions to help our children to succeed in school. It's a shame that you blame me for your lack of being able to offer any constructive suggestions, which only proves what I've said earlier.

Now if you really want to stand by what you're saying now, aside from your attempts to insult....then let's indeed, have a discussion as to how we, as a society, can help these children who are failing.

[jbm32206]

In other words, it would seem that you're asking for an Education thread, is this correct?

[JUSTDAVE]

and one just for you because everytime I even comment on education in general the next ten posts usually go

post 1 Dave you are ignoring the problem the parents are to blame

post 2 someone agrees with you parents parent badly and gives an example

post 3 I chime in and say given the fact that parents are not as good as they used to be we still can make changes to the school system that optimism administrators and teachers performance

post 4 You ignore that I even said administrators and ACCUSE ME OF KNOWING NOTHING and go on to say quit blaming teachers

post 5 someone, usually John. takes two paragraphs to talk about yes parents are a problem but then actually talks about the merits of what I started the thread on in the first place  If I haven't thanked John for this lately I will again say thank you John

posts 6-10 you and one other person saying bad things about parents and talking about how if we could just change parents all other changes wouldn't matter.

after 10 posts I realize it is your goal to keep one of the worst school systems in the country just because we  clearly have bad parents

post 5

In other words, it would seem that you're asking for an Education thread, is this correct?

[jbm32206]

So, what's your point? You still haven't responded to my question as to what you'd like to see change. All you do is whine about my participating in the discussion, but you never really seem to add anything other than complaining that I stand behind for my profession...and have stated over and over, that it's not just the teachers at fault. I've never said it's just the parents lack of parenting...I've also agreed that teachers do need to be held accountable, but that we're not the only ones to blame.

The facts remain...and I don't care how it ticks you off or how many times you whine about the responses you get to such a blanket of blame for teachers (and administrators) only. Take those blinders off, rid yourself of the contempt you seem to harbor for teachers and lets discuss what you feel can be done (or changed) to 'fix' the educational system.

[JUSTDAVE]

Just the threads I recall eliminate magnet schools (why bother parents to blame)
Eliminate 4x 4 block scheduling (why bother parents to blame)
have teachers explain why their class didn't do well on FCAT (why bother parents to blame)
Put more security and cameras around places where kids park bicycles (why bother parents to blame)

I started 15-20 threads on education at metjax you practicly copied and pasted the same answer on every one.

So, what's your point? You still haven't responded to my question as to what you'd like to see change. All you do is whine about my participating in the discussion, but you never really seem to add anything other than complaining that I stand behind for my profession...and have stated over and over, that it's not just the teachers at fault. I've never said it's just the parents lack of parenting...I've also agreed that teachers do need to be held accountable, but that we're not the only ones to blame.

The facts remain...and I don't care how it ticks you off or how many times you whine about the responses you get to such a blanket of blame for teachers (and administrators) only. Take those blinders off, rid yourself of the contempt you seem to harbor for teachers and lets discuss what you feel can be done (or changed) to 'fix' the educational system.

[JUSTDAVE]

Dave.

Are you serious?

How do parents not get the blame?

Especially angry tax cutting parents who think that professionals making near minimum wage should
a.  Do more with less.
b.  Teach horrible unruly children,--- many of whom would have been improved with the direct presence of a paddle weilding granny at an early age---how to act in a manner that vaguely resembles what the rest of western civilization recognizes as 'human'.

From the absurd tax cuts and budget busting, to the rise of no parent homes to a general breakdown in simple social training, teachers today face the most challenging environment since the days of mythical Jane Seymor character Dr. Quinn, Medical Woman.

This is not to say that the school board of duval county doesnt have some of the most boneheaded and obtuse people ever to try and make fire by striking a piece of flint on a small animals hide, but when it comes to the majority of the parents, I would have to say there is no comparison.

[JUSTDAVE]

I agree with both of you there are some rotten parents but it souldn't paralize any discussion on what should about educating our kids.

maybe the fire department should just stop putting out fires and concentrate on making sure they never get started.

There should be a group of people who can look at a situation and consider what eliments of the situation need changes.
I think people who want to just throw in the towel on education because parents are to blame can have a very interresting discussion on their own subject title.

I don't think there is many positive results that will come from it though.

Dave.

Are you serious?

How do parents not get the blame?

Especially angry tax cutting parents who think that professionals making near minimum wage should
a.  Do more with less.
b.  Teach horrible unruly children,--- many of whom would have been improved with the direct presence of a paddle weilding granny at an early age---how to act in a manner that vaguely resembles what the rest of western civilization recognizes as 'human'.

From the absurd tax cuts and budget busting, to the rise of no parent homes to a general breakdown in simple social training, teachers today face the most challenging environment since the days of mythical Jane Seymor character Dr. Quinn, Medical Woman.

This is not to say that the school board of duval county doesnt have some of the most boneheaded and obtuse people ever to try and make fire by striking a piece of flint on a small animals hide, but when it comes to the majority of the parents, I would have to say there is no comparison.

[jbm32206]

I agree with both of you there are some rotten parents but it souldn't paralize any discussion on what should about educating our kids.

maybe the fire department should just stop putting out fires and concentrate on making sure they never get started.

There should be a group of people who can look at a situation and consider what eliments of the situation need changes.
I think people who want to just throw in the towel on education because parents are to blame can have a very interresting discussion on their own subject title.

If my responses seem to be copied and pasted, as you accuse me of...it's only because you refused to discuss further, after placing all the blame soley upon the teachers.

The only reason the discussion was ever paralized, as you seem to think it was...was due to the fact that you refused to continue when met with opposition. There were several educators who took a stand against you blaming just the teachers, and you refused to accept that a great deal of the problems within the school system are the children and parents.

Yes, there's bad apples...there's plenty of teachers I feel should never have been in the classroom to begin with. Still, the fact remains, we're knocking our heads against the wall...between being held responsible for what's NOT within our power, for having to do more without the approppriate funding, for being held accountable for the FCAT; when there's so much more to teaching than just that one test.

As for your comparison...the fire department continues to battle the fires, (as we continue to battle the upscale task of trying to educate children that don't care or want to learn and without enough money to properly do so) and yet they also have fire prevention...just as there's the campaign to keep kids in school. Sound familiar?

I don't see where getting rid of magnet schools would have any positive impact upon kids learning. In fact, Magnet schools get to draw more money...so they're ahead of the game. I cannot comment on the block scheduling as you stated, although we do have blocks of literacy and reading, that are a must for each classroom.

[jbm32206]

I couldn't agree more and they are a very positive factor in our county. I hated when the school I work at lost ours, but that was mainly because we were an "accelerated" which basically amounted to nothing. We were trying to have it changed to academically gifted, when the powers that be, downtown decided to just drop it all together...which means we lost money and our enrollment is down.

[jbm32206]

I don't know to whom you're referring about throwing in the towel....I haven't and refuse to give up. I work very hard at what I do, and put a lot more time, effort, heart and money into it, each and every day. It just upsets me when someone blatantly blames only one part, when the accountability needs to be shared.

[Matt]

i certainly don't rest all of the blame on parents or environment or anything, because i have a strong conviction that you only survive if you want it, but the one thing i noticed is that problematic behaviour is mostly a result of a severe lack of discipline. most parents(if they do punish their kids) do it on a whim out of anger, instead of having preset guidelines for actions/consequences. in that respect, blame the parents all you want. on the other hand, holding the parent responsible for the children's actions is completely rediculous. wether kids get the "right and wrong" talk from their parents is completely irrelevant, as they get it in school, and if the school has rules, they should be responsible for enforcing them. if a parent doesnt care about their child enough to not discipline them, thats sad and all, but the kid will probobly be out of school and the teachers hair by the time they get to high school anyway.

CONCLUSION-
1.parents: discipline your kids. being a young rapscallion myself, i know how important it is.
2.teachers: its not your job to worry about kids; if you do so you go above and beyond the call(and good for you), but it isnt your job to try and fix kids. you just follow the code of conduct and let things pan out as they will.

[jbm32206]

That's all well and good, leaving things to fall where they may with the code of conduct...not likely to resolve the problems that stiffle the school system. Nobody here said anything about resting all the blame on the parents or environment; and I'm going to assume that you're talking about where/how and with whom the kids live...not to mention their financial situaitons, which do happen to impact their overall attitude and performance.

As for teachers "its not your job to worry about kids; if you do so you go above and beyond the call(and good for you), but it isnt your job to try and fix kids. you just follow the code of conduct and let things pan out as they will." You're kidding, right? It's just not that simple...

[urbanlibertarian]

Many parents seem to believe that the government school will do the parenting for them so they don't have to.

[Matt]

im simply saying-put the kids out or suspend them if they bother you.......whatever it takes. but there is no reason why a troubled youth should hold up the education process. And, the school has an obligation to act if a child is breaking rules. i wasnt dropping responsibility on the school, im telling them to do their job for once instead of complaining about lack of funding or other problems that wont be solved. my schoolteachers just let the kids walk all over them, and if they would follow the rules and suspend kids, instead of "understanding their social conflict" they would either A. miss so much school that they fail out, or B.stop being morons because of their ultimately self-centered behaviour.