CSX JAXPORT plan opens the door for Commuter Rail

[JeffreyS]

The Lakeland problem seems solvable.

[Ocklawaha]

The map excludes the original Seaboard Route between Fernandina and Cedar Key. In our area the Yulee-Callahan line was used as a branchline until fairly recent memory. The Gross Cut-Off was last to go but it was designed to get the Seaboard traffic to or from North of the border, over to the Callahan-Baldwin and south by-pass for Jacksonville. The passenger trains and Jacksonville or West Coast bound freight came on down along N. Main Street into Springfield Yard, then used the "S" to Union Station or (Beaver Street) WEST JAX. yard. My best guess would be they'll use the older route so they don't mess with the deal with First Coast Railroad. First Coast Runs the Kings Bay-Kingsland-Gross-Yulee-Fernandina Trackage. So a CSX line from Jax Port- Yulee - Callahan wouldn't crimp their operations.

Better still, if State money could come into play would be the pale blue line shown, which is a route more or less available for both the Norfolk Southern AND the CSX to access the port.

Bottom line, to really spring this and make us all happy, the CITY-STATE-SHORTLINE-TRANSIT operators need to buy the track from Jax-Port to North Main and hence South into Springfield, rebuilding the "S" connection.
If we did this, and CSX went ahead with rebuilding the old Fl RR line, we would have universal access to the port by all carriers and CSX would offer a reliever route to everything headed north. Wonder if NS is reading this? Wake up boys!



The old "S" from Springfield - Union Station was once a busy passenger route with some freight traffic as well, just to the North was the old "St. Johns River Terminal Railroad" or the "SOUTHERN" which today is the Norfolk Southern. In this photo (I FINALLY FOUND IT) one can see both routes with one of Seaboards trains headed into town. Note the NS line just to the North. My photo has "Liberty St Florida" on the back of it.

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Webster's move may be an effort to get support from South Florida lawmakers who have little to gain in the CSX deal. Under Webster's proposal, anyone who rents a car at an international airport in a county that has a government-run passenger rail system would pay the $2 tax. That money would be used to pay for commuter rail operations. That would allow South Florida counties to rely on tourism-heavy car rentals to subsidize their own Tri-Rail passenger service.

Would taxing car rentals at the airports eleminate any incentive for connecting them to a transit system?  Seems like a rail connection would lower the amount of car rentals.

Good question.

The Orlando deal relocates the majority of CSX's rail traffic to the S-Line from Baldwin to Lakeland.  When freight gets to downtown Lakeland, it will shift back to the A-Line for 15 miles before heading south in Auburndale to go to South Florida.  That 15 mile stretch between Lakeland and Auburndale is a critical link for any rail plan that would involve connecting the Central Florida communities together.

Is that stretch running through downtown Lakeland or is it more suburban?  Sounds like an easy fix would be to lay more track along that segment and build a few overpasses.[/quote]

1. That stretch runs through the heart of Downtown Lakeland, cutting their core in half.  For comparison's sake imagine if Laura Street was filled with shops and restaurants, while Adams was an at grade rail crossing with tons of daily freight traffic splitting downtown into two.  The easy answer is adding overpasses, but neither the State, Orlando or CSX is willing to fund them and to construct them would certainly involve taking out lofts, restaurants and shops.

Downtown Lakeland

Or simply run a new "bypass" line (right over top of the I-4 emblem) to connect the Auberndale junction with the mainline further north.  Not the end of the world.

There is a solution, but someone needs to fund it.  This would be to relay the old main line from Wildwood to Auburndale.  Unfortunately, the situation Lakeland faces is one that was caused by poor planning on the part of the State and Orlando.  All they are doing is shifting the traffic problem 45 miles south to another Central Florida community and asking its taxpayers to pay CSX for it.  Unfortunately, Lakeland is a smaller community and most likely does not stand a chance against political big boys like CSX, the State, Orlando and now Jacksonville and possibly South Florida, although their solution makes a ton of sense.

[thelakelander]

Nice find Ock.  This is the Springfield warehouse district and the white building in the background appears to be the old Merita Bread plant on Market Street, meaning this image is taking from Liberty, looking west.  Here's a few present day images looking at this area from different viewpoints.

Market looking east


Liberty looking east


Liberty, looking NE

The grassy area is where the track with the train in the older photo, once laid.

[Lunican]

Our position: Giving CSX limited liability for commuter rail is totally justified
The Orlando Sentinel
Editorial
April 22, 2008

Florida's Senate gets the chance today to support mass transit when its transportation committee takes up the insurance portion of the deal that would bring commuter rail to Central Florida.

Or it can set back for years the cause of moving people around their region in something other than gas-guzzling, road-clogging cars. It can do that if it falls for the pleadings of trial lawyers and a Lakeland senator, who'd have it believe the deal's an outrageous, unfair, unjustifiable giveaway to CSX Corp., which is selling the 61-mile rail line commuter rail would run on.

CSX would pay for damages that its freight cars caused. The state would pay for damages caused by passenger trains. If freight and commuter cars crashed, causing injuries on the street, both parties would pay.

Outrageous? It's the same deal that South Florida's Tri Rail gets. And other states' commuter-rail systems typically offer rail companies more generous liability terms.

Unfair? By putting passengers on a freight line, the state's introducing a potential liability for CSX that wasn't there previously, supporting the state taking on some of the risk. House transportation committee Chairman Rich Glorioso rightly noted that last month, when his committee passed the liability bill.

Unjustifiable? Voting against the deal at the behest of trial lawyers and Sen. Paula Dockery would derail commuter rail in Florida for at least a generation. Congress, partly funding it, won't again for years if the Legislature rejects it. No Florida lawmaker should want to have to justify that.

[Jason]

There is a solution, but someone needs to fund it.  This would be to relay the old main line from Wildwood to Auburndale.  Unfortunately, the situation Lakeland faces is one that was caused by poor planning on the part of the State and Orlando.  All they are doing is shifting the traffic problem 45 miles south to another Central Florida community and asking its taxpayers to pay CSX for it.  Unfortunately, Lakeland is a smaller community and most likely does not stand a chance against political big boys like CSX, the State, Orlando and now Jacksonville and possibly South Florida, although their solution makes a ton of sense.

The image you posted doesn't seem to show all of the rail lines through that area of the state.  This Google Earth image shows the "Auburndale" line continuing north to eventually tie back in with the CSX line further north.  Could this line be abandoned or is it owned by a short line?  If CSX could get their hands on it they would have a direct shot to the south and would be able to re-rout all of their South Florida to this corridor.

[adamh0903]

The last trains rolled through Callahan in the early/mid 80's on the old FL RR line. The old timers around here say they called that line, "the peggy". since that time business along the rail bed rented the property from FL RR and then CSX for business parking and other uses, about 8 months ago, most businesses got a letter from CSX about stating CSX no longer owned the property and businesses could no longer lease it. After extensive land and title searches we found out that CSX DOES own the property.

[thelakelander]

The image you posted doesn't seem to show all of the rail lines through that area of the state.  This Google Earth image shows the "Auburndale" line continuing north to eventually tie back in with the CSX line further north.  Could this line be abandoned or is it owned by a short line?  If CSX could get their hands on it they would have a direct shot to the south and would be able to re-rout all of their South Florida to this corridor.

The image I posted shows today's operational rail lines and the companies that own them.  The Wildwood-Auburndale line was pulled up over 20 years ago.  Today, its the Gen. Van Fleet Trail.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/gwt/guide/regions/eastcentral/trails/general_james.htm



The Auburndale line currently ends next to a lumberyard just south of Old Dixie Highway.  On the Google Earth aerial you posted that would be the "P" in Polk Parkway.




If the Orlando deal is approved, the majority of freight traffic will run East from Downtown Lakeland on the A-Line and head south to the proposed Winter Haven rail hub, near the Minute Main Juice processing plant and Auburndale yard.

[thelakelander]

The last trains rolled through Callahan in the early/mid 80's on the old FL RR line. The old timers around here say they called that line, "the peggy". since that time business along the rail bed rented the property from FL RR and then CSX for business parking and other uses, about 8 months ago, most businesses got a letter from CSX about stating CSX no longer owned the property and businesses could no longer lease it. After extensive land and title searches we found out that CSX DOES own the property.

So if CSX does own the property, then this must certainly be the rail line they are talking about relaying.  It would be difficult to imagine the spending additional millions on assembling the large amount of ROW needed for a new path.

[adamh0903]

exactly, this is what a few of us was talking about this morning.

[JeffreyS]

Is it any wonder CSX makes a profit even when everybody else struggles.  Jacksonville is lucky to have them. I  hope they want the commuter rail deal here like they seem to in Orlando.

[Jason]

The image I posted shows today's operational rail lines and the companies that own them.  The Wildwood-Auburndale line was pulled up over 20 years ago.  Today, its the Gen. Van Fleet Trail.

If that corridor hasn't been built on yet that may be a viable option for a Lakeland bypass. 

It floors me how much of our rail has been ripped up.

[thelakelander]

Its just as rural as it was the day they pulled the tracks up.  Its a no brainer, but its also expensive.

[Ocklawaha]

Find in "PURPLE" (what else) some abandoned lines that IF rebuilt, would fix Jacksonville, Lakeland, Tampa and Orlandos railroad problems. You'll recall I posted a connection from Blount Island around the Airport to the CSX about a month or two ago. Some of this is pretty basic, but FDOT has ignored this and allowed these traps to grow beyond management size.



Ocklawaha

[adamh0903]

I live about 100 yards from the old rail bed, so after looking at it last night, I am not sure there is enough room to make a turn north to tie into the existing tracks to waycross. The old Fl RR line only ran south/east. With the exisiting property near the tracks, Im not sure there is room to take freight north.

In these pictures, the blue lines are the exsiting CSX line to waycross the green line was the old FL RR line and the red boxes are exsisting property that is being used near the sight.