Republican Florida Already Missed the Boat on Rail Money: A Boon for California?

[yapp1850]

tgv in paris does not stop in  city center  but at   Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport to disney land train station at disney land staion is at the front door,  or  take the local train to  city center  station and  tranfer to  disney land  station 100m   from  disney land

[yapp1850]

there is a tgv staion in paris besides airport but it in not in the city center

[yapp1850]

to get to london Eurostar  in city center

[tufsu1]

TU, those schedules are simply to demonstrate that not only can we do this with conventional equipment, WE DID IT IN 1936!

are you also implying that freight rail traffic is the same in 2010 as it was in 1936?

[Ocklawaha]

I thought you might have figured this out in "Sandbox 101"... OF COURSE NOT, but consider counting tracks on a 100' right-of-way some for freight capacity improvements, and some for HrSR. Pretty elementary my man.


OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

tgv in paris does not stop in  city center  but at   Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport to disney land train station at disney land staion is at the front door,  or  take the local train to  city center  station and  tranfer to  disney land  station 100m   from  disney land

Correct they do NOT leave from a downtown station, they leave from 3 of them:

Gare Du Nord
Gare Montparnasse
Gare de Lyon
PLUS
Charles de Gaulle Airport : It is possible to get to any TGV city from the airport station, AS WELL AS 3 OF THE 5 DOWNTOWN STATIONS.

http://www.bonjourlafrance.com/france-trains/tgv-paris/schedules/tgv-paris.htm#DESTINATION

OCKLAWAHA

For ALL details...
   1. Click here for text links for ALL TGV Cities from Downtown Paris (Alphabetical order)
2. Click here for map links to ALL TGV Cities from Downtown Paris

3. Click here for text links for the TGV routes from Downtown Paris to the French Regions


   TGV number      6601     6641     6603     6681     6643     6605     6645     6607     6609     6611     6613     6615     6685     6617     6619     6657     TGV number      6621     6659     6623     6663     6687     6627     6665     6629     6689     6669     6631     6671     6633     6673     6635
Correspondence by Coach       Coach    .    .    .    Coach    .    .    .    .    .    .    Coach    Coach    .    .    .    NB       Coach    .    .    .    .    Coach    .    .    .    .    Coach    .    .    .    .
Amenities       Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Amenities       Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar    Bar
PARIS-GARE-DE-LYON    Departure    6.00    6.30    7.00    7.00    7.30    8.00    8.30    9.00    10.00    11.00    12.00    13.00    13.00    14.00    15.00    15.30    PARIS-GARE-DE-LYON    Departure    16.00    16.30    17.00    17.30    17.30    18.00    18.30    19.00    19.00    19.30    20.00    20.30    21.00    21.30    22.00
Le Creusot-TGV    Arrival    7.22    .    .    .    8.49    .    .    .    .    .    .    14.18    14.18    .    .    .    Le Creusot-TGV    Arrival    17.20    .    .    .    .    19.19    .    .    .    .    21.19    .    .    .    .
Macon-TGV    Arrival    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    Macon-TGV    Arrival    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    .
LYON-PART-DIEU    Arrival    8.04    8.25    8.54    8.54    9.31    9.55    10.25    10.55    11.55    12.55    13.55    15.01    15.01    15.55    16.55    17.25    LYON-PART-DIEU    Arrival    18.01    18.26    18.55    19.25    19.25    20.01    20.25    20.57    20.57    21.25    22.01    22.25    22.55    23.31    23.59
Lyon-Perrache    Arrival    8.15    8.36    9.10    .    9.42    10.06    10.36    11.06    12.06    13.06    14.06    15.16    .    16.06    17.06    17.36    Lyon-Perrache    Arrival    18.13    18.37    19.08    19.41    .    20.12    20.38    21.15    .    21.38    22.13    22.36    23.06    23.42    0.10
St-Etienne-Chateaucreux    Arrival    a9.02    .    a10.05    9.41    .    b11.04    b11.34    b12.05    b13.02    a14.04    a15.05    .    15.47    a17.05    a18.03    a18.23    St-Etienne-Chateaucreux    Arrival    a19.05    a19.23    a20.03    .    20.11    .    a21.41    .    21.45    a22.32    a23.04    .    a0.03    .    a1.05
          Days this train runs

[Ocklawaha]

TU, those schedules are simply to demonstrate that not only can we do this with conventional equipment, WE DID IT IN 1936!

are you also implying that freight rail traffic is the same in 2010 as it was in 1936?

SLEEPER IS READY, BUT THE TRAIN ISN'T HERE YET...
AND THAT IS JUST FINE IN 1936.

The trains in 1936 were quite able to cover this ground at 100 mph, BUT this was an overnight sleeping car route. Sleepers were owned and operated by Pullman, a national railroad-hotel on wheels company and the railroads operated them only on contract. For the benefit of the overnight passengers on these short-route
trains, they moved along slowly so the waking and departing hours would not be extreme. Even so according to the ad, the sleeper is cooled and waiting for passengers at an early evening time for those that want to turn-in early and wake up at the other end of the line.


OCKLAWAHA

[Dog Walker]

Ock, Please stop posting those TGV schedules.  I makes me want to cry. 

Two hours from Paris to Lyon, city center to city center, same distance as Jax-Miami and trains leaving every thirty minutes.  And they have been doing this for over twenty years.

We will never catch up in your or my lifetimes.

[tufsu1]

so what you're saying Ock is that there is enough room for multiple sets of tracks along the 100' ROW....that way passenger rail and freight rail could use separate tracks...I agree...

but here's the rub...

1. CSX owns the ROW so the state would have to reach a use agreement with them...I doubt that would be free.
2. then the state (or someone) would have to construct the additional tracks.
3. there is much more development adjacent to and near the tracks then in 1936....so there would likely be a need for major crossing upgrades (like overpasses).

Now, I'm not saying all this would cost $3 Billion (I'm still tyrying to figure out how a $1.5 Billion HSR estimate has doubled)...but it most certainly wouldn't be cheap!

[Ocklawaha]

Sometimes you have to ask yourself, which one looks like the better spot for a train?

so what you're saying Ock is that there is enough room for multiple sets of tracks along the 100' ROW....that way passenger rail and freight rail could use separate tracks...I agree...

but here's the rub...

1. CSX owns the ROW so the state would have to reach a use agreement with them...I doubt that would be free.
2. then the state (or someone) would have to construct the additional tracks.
3. there is much more development adjacent to and near the tracks then in 1936....so there would likely be a need for major crossing upgrades (like overpasses).

Now, I'm not saying all this would cost $3 Billion (I'm still trying to figure out how a $1.5 Billion HSR estimate has doubled)...but it most certainly wouldn't be cheap!

BINGO! Let's give the Jelly Bean to the man in the trilby hat!

1.  Nobody is claiming that buying the CSX railroad track, or the land under those tracks would be free or even trouble free, it's just another business deal and would have to be worked out in detail. The fact is MANY other places have already done this... Virginia, North Carolina, hell even GEORGIA...OKLAHOMA now owns several thousand miles of track, but the trains on the same are BN-SANTA FE, UNION PACIFIC...etc... Even if they sold us the whole damn thing (and Florida already owns the CSX in South Florida and Orlando) it doesn't need to:

Effect their operations negatively, bringing only positive improvements for the railroad.

2.  Constructing 90-120 mile per hour track is a damn sight cheaper then building elevated 186 mile per hour track down I-4 and I-95, and 100-120 miles per hour should be enough to prove and build more demand from Tampa-Miami. All Floridian's should know that as speeds increase the cost of track goes up exponentially - while time between stations falls at a slower rate. Once demand is there for more or better, we already have the short route under control.

3.  Development must be the LAST consideration that Florida has to worry over if it plans on blowing an elevated railroad through the area around International Drive! Frankly The Cargill Fertilizer Company Inc; IMC Phosphate Co; Mulberry Phosphate Co; Purina Mills Inc, etc. will complain a hell of a lot less about more trains then the folks in Williamsburg, South Chase, Whisper Lakes and Celebration.

All I'm really saying TU, is that we don't even know if the numbers are solid, and here we've told the world and it's tax payers this thing will "make money - enough to expand it statewide..." NOT GOING TO HAPPEN and you and I know this for a fact. There are currently two passenger railroads in the world making money, Osaka-Tokyo and Paris-Lyon, THAT'S IT, end of tale, NOBODY MAKES A PROFIT ON PASSENGER RAIL. The Florida contention that they don't because somehow they are not up to American ingenuity is insane, look at their trains and look at ours and tell me who is smart. I believe enough to campaign against this boondoggle that it will be the death of passenger rails hopes in America...FOREVER.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

2.  Constructing 90-120 mile per hour track is a damn sight cheaper then building elevated 186 mile per hour track down I-4 and I-95

who said anything about being elevated?

[Ocklawaha]

It is elevated at the stations as well as the Orlando and Tampa urban areas. According to the drawings Lakeland area is elevated too. Doesn't matter really if they do or they don't follow the drawings, it's too expensive, misses the market, will not make a profit, poorly designed from top to bottom...

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

alsto Pendolino high-speed trains the tilting train get up to 155mp on reg. tracks 

[yapp1850]

alstom

[Ocklawaha]

Now your talking.


OCKLAWAHA