Republican Florida Already Missed the Boat on Rail Money: A Boon for California?

[Ocklawaha]

not true Ock...the HSR ballot question from 2000 required connecting the 5 largest metro areas....Florida decided that could be handled at first by connecting Tampa Bay, Orlando, West Palm, Ft. Lauderdale, and Miami....however, since then the state's plan has been updated to include an HSR connection from Orlando to Jacksonville....that is step 3 in the plan

Not true TU...  REALLY? We all know what Jacksonville has gotten is a bone tossed to the dog. The FEC RY HSR application called for only 90mph with conventional equipment (AMTRAK) and it won't even get above 79 until it is south of Melbourne. Fat chance we'll ever see a true HSR route running up the St. Johns valley to Jacksonville because they'll claim there isn't enough density...so again..."better Amtrak" and all of it labeled HSR because the Federal Government has decided 90 mph is HSR... even if it's only for a mile or two.

Tallahassee's love for Jacksonville is further shown by the newly reinstated SUNSET LIMITED/GULF WIND ROUTE and our SILVER STAR train direct to Ocala-Wildwood-Lakeland-Tampa. Tallahassee speaks with forked tongue.

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

ock why do you like tampa union station better than the high speed station.  tampa union station  is not downtown  high speed is,  union station  has no public tranit,  high speed  will.   union  station will have a  brt station to get you  the high speed station

[yapp1850]

ock  all the laocal rail for  tampa will be light rail to to high speed rail station, commuter  rail  will go to union staion, i predit  will have both  high speed  and  low speed amtrak,  something like what is in boston now   south station,  north staion

[yapp1850]

hey witch train rout and stations and why
1 csx rout tampa union , down down lakeland, kissimmee, downtown orlando
2 i-4 down town tampa, kathleen/usf, disney,occ,orlando airport
3 tampa high speed station, kathleen rd , disney, downtown orlando at 528/csx we could get into downtown orlando, they not muck room on i-4 to do it.

[Ocklawaha]

ock why do you like tampa union station better than the high speed station.  tampa union station  is not downtown  high speed is,  union station  has no public tranit,  high speed  will.   union  station will have a  brt station to get you  the high speed station

http://www.youtube.com/v/0wQKfARVFKI?fs=1&hl=en_US
All of this space, designed for easy rail access to everywhere going to waste... OR going to commuter trains with a cross town bus connection to HSR, pretty damn dumb if you ask me...

Because all RAIL-roads in the Bay area lead to Union Station and HSR will not work if it is separated from a connective system. Both locations are not exactly downtown, and perhaps the HSR station is closer by a bit but as you said BRT between Tampa Union Station and Downtown, as well as future commuter train and Amtrak connections + LRT.  Union is designed to handle the crowds, already built, part of our heritage, once had 9 tracks plus express area, more then enough room to add Greyhound, Red Bus, Trailways etc... On the one hand we have a nearly turnkey opportunity, and on the other we start from scratch, to me that's simple economics.

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

main reason why i like high speed station over union statios is  hart main bus station is across the street, but  no connection at  union station

[Ocklawaha]

It is light years easier to reroute 50-60 buses then it is to build a railroad through an urban area and establishing a station, and all servicing facilities for trains. I'm also willing to bet if LRT ever comes to Tampa (and I think it will) it will follow the railroads for the most part as it does in almost every other city in America.

Tampa Union Station has ONE PLATFORM and two active tracks in the station, where just a few years ago it had 9 station tracks, 2 that passed by into Port Tampa, and a few more over in the express areas. Those spaces are largely vacant today, have you ever seen a station such as Bakersfield California where cross-platform from Bus to Rail is available? New Orleans has it too. (...and so will Jacksonville if MJ gets it's way at JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL and the Skyway connection to the FEC Southside commuter rail line station at Atlantic Ave.) It doesn't take much to imagine how all of that space could be configured to accommodate intercity bus, BRT, LRT, city transit, AMTRAK, commuter rail AND HSR.

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

csx  said the line is  Not Available for lease and buy line between  east tampa and  downtown, track have to be   50ft  from csx track  or 25 with  a barrer wall,  hart is talking about useing csx bus it will have go on palm ave to high speed station, no union station

[thelakelander]

All of the CSX lines are available for purchase east of the railyards that sit just east of Ybor off of SR 60.  In fact, Tampa's LRT plans call for using these exact lines to tie in DT Tampa with the USF.  So it appears that if TBARTA is successful at implementing LRT one day, the line will naturally connect to Union Station.  However, to get to the proposed HSR station, a new line using a north/south downtown street will have to be extended from the present rail ROW.

[Ocklawaha]

Just a few more critique's which don't even need words.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

because as Lake has said all along...it isn't about the end to end service...it is about the points in between....there is very little interest in going to places like Mulberry, Frostproof, and Avon Park...and what about the folks who might go between West Palm and Orlando?

also, as has been noted, CSX is not interested in selling this line....that's because it is a heavily used freight connection to the Port of Tampa, especially for phosphate.

[thelakelander]

I know Florida is hooked on HSR but an intercity corridor service through a partnership with Amtrak could be achieved without purchasing ROW from CSX.

[tufsu1]

I know Florida is hooked on HSR but an intercity corridor service through a partnership with Amtrak could be achieved without purchasing ROW from CSX.

maybe...just depends on how many trains are run each day and what, if any, impacts there would be to CSX's service

[thelakelander]

If I recall, the entire line has pretty wide ROW, so additional track could be installed if desired.  In the end, considering the cost of HSR down the middle of I-4, Rick Scott's tea party friends and Amtrak's high interest in forming a partnership for such a service, it may be worth a look.

[Ocklawaha]

TU, those schedules are simply to demonstrate that not only can we do this with conventional equipment, WE DID IT IN 1936! Nobody is saying we'd stop in Alturas, or burn 30 minutes on a 12 mile stretch from Bartow to West Lake Wales. On the flip side though it's just as much about a single LAKE WALES-AVON PARK-SEBRING (area) station as it is about a "USF" or "Polk County" station. What about Orlando? No sweat, there are options to use conventional rail between there and Tampa, and the Miami HSR was even considered alongside the CSX via Auburndale and West Lake Wales, so why not? If your thinking a huge crowd is waiting to get to the coast someone tell me, having lived in Orlando for years, which coastal city... Some go to DAYTONA, some to NEW SMYRNA, others to TITUSVILLE and some to COCOA or maybe MELBOURNE, but guess what you can't build to all of them and one line is only going to serve ONE OF THEM.

If you REALLY want to make a difference in Central Florida and give them a system that will last forever, producing jobs and industrial growth, then you build from the FEC mainline across the Banana River and Mosquito Lagoon to Port Canaveral where they've begged for a rail connection for years.

Again, it appears that we are ready to be apologists for bad decision making rather then detectives of fact. CSX would sell their mothers if it would get them better track or operating conditions and frankly that applies to HSR-LRT or just RofW... Amtrak and the State can also play nasty and force the issue so that in the end CSX really has no choice but to play ball. Nobody wants that sort of relationship but even that would be superior to what we're supposedly getting.

OCKLAWAHA