Are we losing our rights in the name of safety?

[Dog Walker]

The most targeted airline in the world has never had an attack succeed against it.  El Al.

They profile, they question, they search luggage.  They have much better airport security than we do and don't seem to harass their passengers as much as we do.  They are a lot more careful about the people who work in the airports and their access and seem to worry less about the passengers.

Do they use those "naked body" scanners?  I don't know.  They did not have them in the past.

[Springfielder]

what airline 

[JeffreyS]

EL AL the Israeli airline.

[Ernest Street]

I guess it would be safe to say that any of your fellow Israeli passengers over the age of say 25, are Military trained?

That might be a deterrant

[cityimrov]

I sure hope these employees are subjected to the same searches each and every time they come to work...including the security guard who checks them.
there better not be an employee entrance!

This makes me think of a fun exercise.  I have a fun proposal that will probably make people erupt in anger but it will be funny to watch.  I say all federally elected officials and state governors should have special privileges that allow them to skip airport security.  

Why not?  Can't your trust your Senator or Governor (elected and vouched for by the people) to board an airplane w/o blowing it up?

Remember, all this is for safety!  That's what people argue all day, right?  

[Lunican]

Pilots and passengers rail at new airport patdowns

(Reuters) - Stepped-up security screening at airports in the wake of foiled terrorism plots has provoked an outcry from airline pilots and travelers, including parents of children who say they are too intrusive.

With the busiest holiday travel season nearing, fliers face long security lines and new rigorous patdown checks begun in recent weeks aimed at discovering hidden explosives. As a result, some travelers are questioning whether to fly at all.

The Transportation Security Administration has ramped up airport security after two plots by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. A Nigerian man hid a bomb in his underwear last Christmas and the group tried to send package bombs via U.S. cargo carriers but none of the explosives detonated.

To thwart such attacks, TSA is deploying body scanning machines to U.S. airports but travelers and pilots have complained about potential health risks and that they are too intrusive. The alternative is a physical patdown by a TSA officer.

"Pilots are not the terrorist threat," said John Prater, president of the Air Line Pilots Association and a veteran pilot for United Continental. "Seeing scarce security resources being used on pilots makes absolutely no sense."

Some pilots, male and female, have complained the patdowns make them feel uncomfortable. The group urged any pilot who feels unfit for duty afterward to "call in sick and remove themselves from the trip."

That has prompted urgent talks between the pilots' group and TSA Administrator John Pistole. The two sides hope to resolve the matter in a few weeks, Prater said.

Full Article:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101111

[Lunican]

http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html

[uptowngirl]

Thanks for posting this Lunican, this is simlar to experiences I have had at the airport too, unfortunately when you need to be at a business meeting/presentation you can;t always decline and leave. If I do something stupid (like rob a bank) and get arrested I expect to be patted down in a very personal way, and even more personal if ever put in jail. Comparing PAYING a significant amount of money to fly a couple of hours to a business meeting, to say robbing a bank to jusitfy a public pat down (sometimes just to prove these idiots are not profiling) is disgusting. I remember one incident when I was about 8 months pregnant with my daughter, in the KC airport. These idiots were very concerned about my big belly, and made a big to-do about patting me down, and requesting me to pull my shirt up so they could see I was really pregnant right in the line! Once I exposed my belly, they just had to then touch it, I mean it looked real....so they just had to know for sure that their was an American baby in there, and not some big ol plastic explosive. I think it is stupid and overly obtrusive, and I choose now not to fly unless absolutely required. The airlines lost a significant amount of money just from little ol me's decision, but Hertz is a fat happy clam.

[cityimrov]

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/48118/

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_111510/content/01125113.guest.html

The country is more united then we first thought it was. 

[BridgeTroll]

So what is it?  We have more than a few posters who feel similar to this...

I sure hope these employees are subjected to the same searches each and every time they come to work...including the security guard who checks them.
there better not be an employee entrance!
NOBODY is above the law,including soldiers,law enforcement,judges,security....some in positions of power (Homeland security) think they are.

Then the Pilots and crew of the article...

"Pilots are not the terrorist threat," said John Prater, president of the Air Line Pilots Association and a veteran pilot for United Continental. "Seeing scarce security resources being used on pilots makes absolutely no sense."

Some pilots, male and female, have complained the patdowns make them feel uncomfortable. The group urged any pilot who feels unfit for duty afterward to "call in sick and remove themselves from the trip."

IMHO... anything and everyone accessing the flight line or airport gate areas needs to be scanned and or searched.  If you think the TSA security folks actually enjoy patting down an irate passenger you are delusional.  My guess is when the policy first came out THEY were the first to object.

[KenFSU]

It's such a slippery slope. This nonsense starts at the airport. Then maybe moves to passenger trains and buses. Next up is federal and city buildings. And before you know it, you're using this technology on kids as they enter school. People balk when you say such a thing, but as an American citizen, you should be under no obligation to even show your ID when you fly. It's nobody's business where you travel within your country.

[BridgeTroll]

It sure is Ken... I suppose all we need is an explosion at the subway station or an AMTRAK gets blown up.  Have you been to a ball game or concert lately?  Metal detectors, purse searches, and pat downs are the norm.

[urbanlibertarian]

From columnist Steve Chapman:

When it comes to protecting against terrorism, this is how things usually go: A danger presents itself. The federal government responds with new rules that erode privacy, treat innocent people as suspicious, and blur the distinction between life in a free society and life in a correctional facility. And we all tamely accept the new intrusions, like sheep being shorn.

Maybe not this time.

The war on terrorism is going to get personal. Very personal. Americans have long resented the hassles that go with air travel ever since 9/11â€"long security lines, limits on liquids, forced removal of footwear, and so on. But if the Transportation Security Administration has its way, we will look back to 2009 as the good old days.

Though the harm to privacy is certain, the benefit to public safety is not. The federal Government Accountability Office has said it "remains unclear" if the scanners would have detected the explosives carried by the would-be Christmas Day bomber.

They would also be useless against a terrorist who inserts a bomb in his rectumâ€"like the al-Qaida operative who blew himself up last year in an attempt to kill a Saudi prince. Full-body scanning will sorely chafe many innocent travelers, while creating only a minor inconvenience to bloodthirsty fanatics.

The good news is that last year, the House of Representatives voted to bar the use of whole-body scanners for routine screening. But only a sustained public outcry will force a change.

We will soon find out if there is a limit to the sacrifices of personal freedom that Americans will endure in the name of fighting terrorism. If we don't say no when they want to inspect and handle our private parts, when will we?

Whole column here:http://reason.com/archives/2010/11/15/get-the-government-out-of-our

[Dog Walker]

Hey!  I have an idea for a quiet protest, one that TSA could not say would not meet their security guidelines and refuse to let you board.

At the point in the security line where you take off your shoes, proceed to take off ALL the rest of your clothes and put them in the bin with your shoes.  As you go through the metal detector, raise your arms and turn around so the agent can see all of you.  No x-ray, no pat down.  Group of ten doing this would make the news for sure.

Second alternative:  Ten people in a row.  Refuse the x-ray.  When the pat down starts begin writhing around and making sexual moaning noises and shout, "Oh don't stop, don't stop! Touch me again!" for as long as the pat down takes.  What could they do?

[BridgeTroll]

While I may agree with the gripes regarding privacy... I see no solutions forthcoming from those who think this is such an outrage.  Please enlighten us and TSA.  I suppose we could get all our freedoms back if we roll security back to 9/10/2001.  I mean how many airliners could they really bring down a year?  2? 3? 10?  I mean there are thousands of flights per day... what are your chances of being on one of those unlucky ones?