Are we losing our rights in the name of safety?

[uptowngirl]

I travel ALOT for business. I refuse to fly unless it takes more than a day to drive to my final destination, because going through the airport is so disgusting. If full body imaging is not enough, the pat downs are just humiliating. I cannot count how many times an agent has had to pat down my breasts due to my undergarment setting off the little wand. Come on, women have wires in the bras, but this seems to be an excuse to touch and fondle breasts. Why does anyone have the right to touch women like this? Is buying a ticket to fly make you a criminal to be patted down and fondled? When did we give up all our rights to Homeland Security? I agree with these groups, just say no to flying if at all possible...


http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/12/travel.screening/index.html?hpt=T2

(CNN) -- A growing pilot and passenger revolt over full-body scans and what many consider intrusive pat-downs couldn't have come at a worse time for the nation's air travel system.

Thanksgiving, the busiest travel time of the year, is less than two weeks away.

Grassroots groups are urging travelers to either not fly or to protest by opting out of the full-body scanners and undergo time-consuming pat-downs instead.

Such concerns prompted a meeting Friday of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano with leaders of travel industry groups.

Napolitano met with the U.S.Travel Association and 20 travel companies "to underscore the Department's continued commitment to partnering with the nation's travel and tourism industry to facilitate the flow of trade and travel while maintaining high security standards to protect the American people," the department said in a statement.

Federal officials have increased security in the wake of plots attributed to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

Industry leaders are worried about the grassroots backlash to Transportation Security Administration security procedures. Some pilots, passengers and flight attendants have chosen to opt out of the revealing scans.

More of the units are arriving at airports, with 1,000 expected to be in place by the end of 2011.

"While the meeting with Secretary Napolitano was informative, it was not entirely reassuring," the U.S. Travel Association said in a statement.

"We certainly understand the challenges that DHS confronts, but the question remains, 'where do we draw the line'? Our country desperately needs a long-term vision for aviation security screening, rather than an endless reaction to yesterday's threat," the statement said. "At the same time, fundamental American values must be protected."

The travel industry is concerned that consumers may decide not to take a plane to Aunt Gertrude's for the holiday.

"We have received hundreds of e-mails and phone calls from travelers vowing to stop flying," Geoff Freeman, an executive vice president of the U.S. Travel Association, told Reuters.

A 2008 survey found that air travelers "avoided" 41 million trips because they believed the air travel system was either "broken" or in need of "moderate correction," the U.S. Travel Association said. The decisions cost airlines $9.4 billion, the survey said.

One online group, "National Opt Out Day" calls for a day of protest against the scanners on Wednesday, November 24, the busiest travel day of the year.

Another group argues the TSA should remove the scanners from all airports. The Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non-profit privacy advocacy group, is taking legal action, saying the TSA should be required to conduct a public rule-making to evaluate the privacy, security and health risks caused by the body scanners.

Pilots' unions for US Airways and American Airlines are urging their members to avoid full-body scanning at airport security checkpoints, citing health risks and concerns about intrusiveness and security officer behavior.

"Pilots should NOT submit to AIT (Advanced Imaging Technology) screening," wrote Capt. Mike Cleary, president of the U.S. Airline Pilots Association, in a letter to members this week. USAPA represents more than 5,000 US Airways pilots.

"Based on currently available medical information, USAPA has determined that frequent exposure to TSA-operated scanner devices may subject pilots to significant health risks," Cleary wrote.

Napolitano told industry leaders that biometric identification, such as retinal scanning and thorough background checks will expedite the screening of 80,000 passengers who participate in "trusted traveler" programs, the department said.

But the chorus against the security measures is getting louder.

The website "We Won't Fly" urgers travelers to "Act now. Travel with Dignity."

"We are opposed to the full-body backscatter X-ray airport scanners on grounds of health and privacy. We do not consent to strip searches, virtual or otherwise. We do not wish to be guinea pigs for new, and possibly dangerous, technology. We are not criminals. We are your customers. We will not beg the government anymore. We will simply stop flying until the porno-scanners are history," the site says.

"National Opt Out Day," organized by Brian Sodegren, encourages solidarity on November 24, amid the crush of Thanksgiving travelers.

"It's the day ordinary citizens stand up for their rights, stand up for liberty, and protest the federal government's desire to virtually strip us naked or submit to an "enhanced pat-down" that touches people's breasts and genitals. You should never have to explain to your children, 'Remember that no stranger can touch or see your private area, unless it's a government employee, then it's OK.' "

According to the group, passengers who say "I opt out" when told to go through body scanners are submitted to a pat-down.

"Be sure to have your pat-down by TSA in full public -- do not go to the back room when asked. Every citizen must see for themselves how the government treats law-abiding citizens," the website says.

The Facebook page of the group includes a litany of complaints about the scanners.

"I'm completely appalled by this," one woman wrote. "What happened to our right to privacy? Has Homeland Security forgotten our rights because they think its going to stop terrorists?"

Meanwhile, the Council on American-Islamic Relations has issued its own travel advisory over pat-downs many "describe as invasive and humiliating."

Muslim women who wear a hijab and are selected for secondary screening because of a head scarf should remind TSA officers "that they are only supposed to pat down the area in question, in this scenario, your head and neck. They should not subject you to a full-body or partial-body pat-down," the group said.

The TSA has deployed nearly 350 advanced imaging technology (body scanner) units in nearly 70 U.S. airports, administrator John Pistole said recently. "By the end of calendar year 2011, we plan to have deployed approximately 1,000 units."

The agency is exploring enhancements to the technology.

"This capability would make screening more efficient and would eliminate most privacy concerns about the technology," Pistole said.

Privacy concerns aren't the only reason for protests.

Some scientists and two major airline pilots unions contend not enough is known about the effects of the small doses of X-ray radiation emitted by one of the two types of airport scanning machines.

The Transportation Security Administration's advanced imaging technology machines use two separate means of creating images of passengers -- backscatter X-ray technology and millimeter-wave technology.

While the TSA says the machines are safe, backscatter technology raises concerns among some because it uses small doses of ionizing radiation. The use of millimeter-wave technology hasn't received the same attention, and radiation experts say it poses no known health risks.

The risk of harmful radiation exposure from backscatter scans is very small, according to David Brenner, director of the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University and a professor of radiation biophysics.

The TSA says the technology has been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration's Center for Devices and Radiological Health, the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory.

[RiversideLoki]

In a word: yes.

To put it more bluntly: The terrorists won.

That's the dirty secret no one wants you to know. In the past 10 years we've given up our rights in the name of safety. Only to be harangued when we want to go visit grandma for the holidays. Our economy has gone to garbage due to out of control defense spending on two wars (only one of which was even remotely justified). We've killed over 100,000 innocent Iraqis. Tortured "suspects" and "war criminals". Wiped our rear ends with the more important parts of the constitution via the PATRIOT act, and we've thrown the image of the United States down the crapper... for what? All in the name of "safety". Because we're scared of brown people.

I've known some TSA agents, and I know that most of them are just trying to do their job. But I have also known one or two that think that TSA badge magically gives them law enforcement powers and a criminal justice degree. Well, it doesn't.

Did you know that it requires no more skill to work at TSA than it does to land a job at burger king?

I AM NOT EVEN KIDDING.

KEY REQUIREMENTS:

   * Must possess U.S. Citizenship or be a U.S. National.
   * Must be able to obtain and maintain a Secret Clearance.
   * Must pass Drug and Alcohol Screening and be subject to random drug tests.
   * May require occasional overnight travel.
   * Must complete a favorable Background Investigation (BI).

Source: http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=91940565&JobTitle=Transportation+Security+Specialist+-SV-1801-I&lid=316&sort=rv%2c-dtex&cn=&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=50&fn=4604&jbf574=HSBC&vw=b&re=134&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&caller=basic.aspx&ss=0&AVSDM=2010-11-05+15%3a16%3a00

They don't train them on human interaction. They train them to find crap. If they were trained with a little "customer service" skills, then maybe something like this could have been avoided.

http://www.youtube.com/v/2TCHSGvNwRY

Or maybe they'd have the common sense not to do this....

[Dog Walker]

+1  Well said, Riverside!

[uptowngirl]

I am glad people are standing up for their rights, I did in NOLA once, made them call the police and filed a complaint. Of course not much happened, except I did get an apology later.

The real war on terror is happening here and now, with our rights being taken away one by one.

[BridgeTroll]

What right is being taken away?

[uptowngirl]

The right to be considered innocent until proven guilty? This is why these guys feel empowered to feel up women taking a business trip. What is in my bra is all me, not some bomb. How about the right to privacy? No one should have to expose their body parts or be subjected to some sickos feel up to get on a plane. I have not, and never will be a terrorist. I do not fit the profile in anyway shape or form, and have been flying constantly for years and years without ever blowing anything/anyone up. Why should I have to show these yahoos my DL? What is it any of their business where I live? I have not done anything wrong. In fact I am only pursuing my happiness by travelling for work , pleasure, or family.

[BridgeTroll]

The right to be considered innocent until proven guilty?

Did someone say you were guilty of something?

This is why these guys feel empowered to feel up women taking a business trip.

Really??

I have not, and never will be a terrorist.

This is good to know.  But not really relevant...

I do not fit the profile in anyway shape or form

So... you support profiling?  Would that be arab "looking" people?

Why should I have to show these yahoos my DL?

To prove your identity.

[uptowngirl]

When you are pulled to the side and a man fondles your breasts, you bet!

Every single person entering that security check point is treated as a guilty of trying to commit a crime, if not then why the pat down? Why the strip down?

I have no issue with profiling, it is a useful tool if not subverted by the absolute losers TSA seems to attract.

I do not need to prove my identity? Why should I? I never had to before, and should not ahve to now.


I am sure it is difficult for guys to sit back and really understand what it is like to be on your way to a business meeting, trying to get to your plane and have some disgusting dood pull you to the side, wand your boobs for five minutes,then reach out and pat them, and then jump on your plane and hit your meeting not feeling violated in the least.

If that is the world you are advocating, I want no part of it-that is not America to me.

[BridgeTroll]

Every single person entering that security check point is treated as a guilty of trying to commit a crime, if not then why the pat down? Why the strip down?

No they arent.  you are being scanned and searched for yours and your fellow passengers safety.  As to ID... we have been showing ID for a long time now.  This is hardly intrusive. 

I am not a fan of the "pat down" either but if you opt out of the scan that is your choice.  If you go thrugh the scan an set something off you need to be "patted down".

[cityimrov]

If I remember correctly, a few hours after September 11th, people started complaining about why the government wasn't doing anything about it.  The people were yelling loudly, "Why didn't the government do anything?  Why isn't the government running airport security?  Why aren't they fixing this thing tomorrow?"  From what I remember, the lawmakers, listening to the general public, worked as fast as they could using the input they got from the public to "fix" this solution.  To create a good plan takes months to years of work, the people wanted it done in hours so we ended up with a plan created in hours.  

If I remember correctly, the people were thrilled and excited about it.  The more harassing the TSA, the better marks they were getting.  Try and argue against the TSA in a travel forum visited by an average tourist and watch your post get flamed by people saying they are there for our protection.  Well, that was a a while back, I don't know about now.  

The thing is, true safety is gotten by things hidden from the public view (Intelligence spending, spies, hiring more air marshals, building foreign relationships, etc) but the public rejected that view hoping for something more visible and comforting.  

Think back when National Guards men were roaming the halls of airports carrying M-16 Rifles.  For some reason, people feel more secure with that then well, more hidden air marshals.  When your paying someone to carry around a M-16 rifle, you aren't using the money you paid them for more useful stuff. 

To put this post in another way, when you asked the government to take over airport security 10 years ago, what did you expect to happen?  

[wsansewjs]

May I offer a quote that describes this entire frakkin' thing?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

-Josh

[BridgeTroll]

wsansewjs... So you are advocating no ID check, no scanning, no metal detection, no air marshalls... No security??   Really wsansewjs??  I mean really?

[Ernest Street]

I sure hope these employees are subjected to the same searches each and every time they come to work...including the security guard who checks them.
there better not be an employee entrance!
NOBODY is above the law,including soldiers,law enforcement,judges,security....some in positions of power (Homeland security) think they are.

When I was growing up here in America,I never got the impression I was "OWED" a safe life from the rest of the world.

[RiversideLoki]

They are not. You have a TSA badge and you can go on through. At least that's how it was a year ago. It's a false sense of security. Contractors can take anything in their bags through the side door if they are accompanied by a TSA agent.

Anything.

[JeffreyS]

Air travel is a private (though subsidized ) service. You are absolutley free not to participate. No one is making anyone go through security.

Guilty until proven innocent is a rule that only exists in a court of law. It is not the American way and is not applicable outside of the courtroom.

The rules are not made so some one can feel you up. The people making the rules do not work the lines.

I would like to know why we spend the money (TSA is taxpayer funded) the money for the scanners if we still have to do pat downs.

I was in two airports this week both had women patting down women same sex for men also.