Tea Party Rails Aginst ALL TRAINS

[Ocklawaha]

Tea Party Coalition Calls on Scott to Derail High-Speed Train Project
Kenric Ward's blog | Posted: November 11, 2010

Saying they "can think of no better symbol of wasteful and unnecessary spending than passenger rail in all its forms," 29 tea party and patriot groups are asking incoming Gov. Rick Scott to scrap rail projects in Florida.

In a letter to Scott on Thursday, the Florida Liberty Alliance stated:

"You were rightly skeptical of the cost-benefit ratio of high-speed rail. You could take notes from New Jersey's governor, Chris Christie, who potentially saved New Jersey over $5 billion in escalating cost overruns when he shut down an expensive tunnel project and returned $350 million in funds already received from the federal government.

"Both governors-elect from Ohio and Wisconsin have signaled they would prefer to shift federal money allocated to building high-speed passenger rail lines in their states to more critical infrastructure projects such as road and bridge projects.

"Despite Florida voters rejecting high-speed rail in 2004, the Obama administration has promised over $2 billion of our nation’s treasure to fund a high-speed rail line from Tampa to Orlando. Even if the feds agreed to pay all the remaining capital costs, thought to exceed $300 million, Florida would be required to pay for any cost overruns which average 40 percent or more.  This factor would likely add an additional $1 billion or more to our state debt just for the Tampa to Orlando leg of the route! ...

"Also consider that once rail is in place, Florida would be on the hook for yearly operating and maintenance costs. This annual cost would be staggering as ticket revenues for passenger rail typically account for a mere 20-30 percent of the operating and maintenance costs. Where in the state budget will we find such a sizeable recurring revenue stream?  It would most assuredly necessitate a new tax on Floridians.

"Furthermore, accepting these federal funds for rail is a lot like checking into Hotel California because once you 'check-in' by accepting federal dollars, you can never 'check-out' without repaying the billions of dollars previously accepted and already spent. ... If we act swiftly, we can escape this financial trap with minimal cost.

"Governor-elect Scott, we are concerned that you may be influenced on this issue by incoming leadership who supports high-speed rail and commuter rail. Paula Dockery is on your transition team and has been an outspoken advocate of high-speed rail as well.

"We implore you to meet with members of the tea party movement to seek an alternative viewpoint on this subject. We can point you to policy experts from CATO Institute and Heritage Foundation whom we have been working with on this issue. We can tell you that high-speed rail will not result in congestion relief for our roads. We will show you that 100 percent of passenger rail systems in the U.S. are on the public dole and require new dedicated funding streams to sustain them. We can tell you that private solutions to transportation between Tampa and Orlando already exist that don't require any investment by citizens of Florida nor will they grow the size of our government.

"We would like you to reject the high-speed rail project and we look forward to the opportunity to speak to you on this and other important matters affecting our great state."
Previous

Saying they "can think of no better symbol of wasteful and unnecessary spending than passenger rail in all its forms," 29 tea party and patriot groups are asking incoming Gov. Rick Scott to scrap rail projects in Florida.

In a letter to Scott on Thursday, the Florida Liberty Alliance stated:

"You were rightly skeptical of the cost-benefit ratio of high-speed rail. You could take notes from New Jersey's governor, Chris Christie, who potentially saved New Jersey over $5 billion in escalating cost overruns when he shut down an expensive tunnel project and returned $350 million in funds already received from the federal government.

"Both governors-elect from Ohio and Wisconsin have signaled they would prefer to shift federal money allocated to building high-speed passenger rail lines in their states to more critical infrastructure projects such as road and bridge projects.

"Despite Florida voters rejecting high-speed rail in 2004, the Obama administration has promised over $2 billion of our nation’s treasure to fund a high-speed rail line from Tampa to Orlando. Even if the feds agreed to pay all the remaining capital costs, thought to exceed $300 million, Florida would be required to pay for any cost overruns which average 40 percent or more.  This factor would likely add an additional $1 billion or more to our state debt just for the Tampa to Orlando leg of the route! ...

"Also consider that once rail is in place, Florida would be on the hook for yearly operating and maintenance costs. This annual cost would be staggering as ticket revenues for passenger rail typically account for a mere 20-30 percent of the operating and maintenance costs. Where in the state budget will we find such a sizeable recurring revenue stream?  It would most assuredly necessitate a new tax on Floridians.

"Furthermore, accepting these federal funds for rail is a lot like checking into Hotel California because once you 'check-in' by accepting federal dollars, you can never 'check-out' without repaying the billions of dollars previously accepted and already spent. ... If we act swiftly, we can escape this financial trap with minimal cost.

"Governor-elect Scott, we are concerned that you may be influenced on this issue by incoming leadership who supports high-speed rail and commuter rail. Paula Dockery is on your transition team and has been an outspoken advocate of high-speed rail as well.

"We implore you to meet with members of the tea party movement to seek an alternative viewpoint on this subject. We can point you to policy experts from CATO Institute and Heritage Foundation whom we have been working with on this issue. We can tell you that high-speed rail will not result in congestion relief for our roads. We will show you that 100 percent of passenger rail systems in the U.S. are on the public dole and require new dedicated funding streams to sustain them. We can tell you that private solutions to transportation between Tampa and Orlando already exist that don't require any investment by citizens of Florida nor will they grow the size of our government.

"We would like you to reject the high-speed rail project and we look forward to the opportunity to speak to you on this and other important matters affecting our great state."
Previous

SOURCE: SUNSHINE NEWS
http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/tea-party-coalition-calls-scott-derail-high-speed-train-project

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Emotions ran hot and cold during this week's high-speed rail show at the Orange County Convention Center. Those wanting to build, operate and ride the high-speed train that's supposed to link Orlando and Tampa beginning in 2015 spoke excitedly of its 168-mile-an-hour speed; its potential to connect with SunRail; and its ability to stimulate if not transform Central Florida's economy.

But many also worried aloud about whether the train would ever really serve passengers between Orlando International Airport, International Drive, Walt Disney World, Lakeland and downtown Tampa. They worried because of what happened Nov. 2: Rick Scott's election as governor.

As a candidate, Mr. Scott took a dim view of the $2.6billion project, indicating that he didn't want it in Florida if the state had to fund any part of it.

That made some rail-show visitors and rail boosters throughout the region fret that Mr. Scott's setting Florida up to be the next New Jersey. There, Republican Gov. Chris Christie turned heads by killing an $8.7 billion commuter-rail tunnel under the Hudson River. Mr. Christie justified its execution, saying New Jersey bore too much of the project's cost (70 percent, he complained), and Washington and New York too little.

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But Florida's not New Jersey. Mr. Christie made that point this week on NBC's Meet the Press, saying Florida would pay a fraction of high-speed rail's cost. Actually, between about 10 percent and nothing at all.

Now Florida's elected officials, its transportation experts and its business leaders need to make these points with Gov.-elect Scott: Florida only stands to benefit by hosting the Orlando-to-Tampa high-speed rail line; and any risk would be born by the federal government and the private companies that operate the line.

Washington already has awarded Florida $2.05 billion of the project's $2.6 billion cost. State transportation officials expect the feds will deliver an additional $340million. That would leave the state with just $280million to make the train a reality.

Two hundred eighty-million dollars is a lot of money in this or any economy. But the Legislature already has made more than that amount available for rail projects. Last year it dedicated a $60 million fund, to be replenished yearly, specifically for rail operations in Florida. Kevin Thibault, who runs the state's fledgling Rail Enterprise, says the fund could pay the $280million over 30 years, in roughly $9 million installments.

Or Mr. Scott and the state could fund Florida's share another way: According to state Sen. Jeremy Ring, who sits on the state's new Passenger Rail Commission, the state could get the multibillion-dollar companies vying to operate the train to cover Florida's $280 million share of the expense. And compel the company selected to move a large part of its operation to Florida. That operation, in turn, would hire hundreds of Floridians.

The option we can't see a businessman like Mr. Scott choosing is none of the above. Florida wouldn't have to pay the train's operation or maintenance costs. Some 23,000 people would construct the rail line, and as many as 1,000 workers would operate it. It would broaden the appeal of businesses along the line and, by speedily connecting Orlando and Tampa, help transform those cities into a single market that attracts entrepreneurs eager to take advantage of the nation's most advanced transit system.

There's so much for leaders like incoming House Speaker Dean Cannon and Senate Majority Leader Andy Gardiner to sell Mr. Scott on. And for leaders like Disney CEO Meg Crofton, Orange County Mayor-elect Teresa Jacobs and regional chambers of commerce heads.

Although something this special ought to sell itself.

SOURCE: ORLANDO SENTINEL
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/editorials/os-ed-high-speed-rail-111210-20101111,0,1518486.story

OCKLAWAHA

[spuwho]

Agree or disagree with their position, they are voters and taxpayers and have a right to be heard.

Hopefully when it is all said and done, everyone will work together for what is best for Florida.

[JeffreyS]

I was listening to a self proclaimed Tea Party supporter today telling me how we waste too much money on foreign aid and without stopping defend us being in Iraq and Afghanistan.  It would be funny if it wasn't so scary. I am predicting the Republicans will get them reigned in at some point.

[brainstormer]

All rail supporters want is for us to spend less money on widening roads and more money on mass transit.  It is still the same amount of money being spent, just a different allocation.  When Tea Party folks start protesting interstate road expansion or plans like the Outer Beltway and 9B, then maybe I will start to take them seriously.

The idiot in waiting, GOP Scott Walker and Tea Party favorite in WI ran on a pledge to stop the passenger rail plan from Milwaukee to Madison saying the state can't afford it.  Now instead of just sending the money back he has written a letter (with a number of grammatical errors) to the secretary of transportation asking for the money to instead be allocated to road building and bridge building.  So really it wasn't so much about the amount of money spent, just what it was going to be spent on.  He pledged to Wisconsinites that he would cut spending and if he can get the feds to throw in $810 million dollars to repair all of the crumbling roads then he can cut the state's transportation budget and really show those people how fiscally conservative he is.  LOL

Look folks, you love your four lane highway so you can live 40 minutes from the city and still get to work on time, but you don't want to pay to maintain it?  Highways aren't free!!!

And just read the headlines throughout the US.  All of these GOP and Tea Party candidates ran on anti-Obama platforms and said they wanted to focus on jobs and the economy.  But now one week later they have already changed their agendas to repealing gay marriage, taking away domestic partner benefits, proposing constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage, repealing environmental policy, repealing health care, suing the federal government, threatening to oust judges, etc.  They knew all along they didn't have any good ideas for actually creating jobs or stimulating the economy.  They used fear to trick the American people into voting them in and now they are back to their social conservative platform because that is the only one they know.

Sorry this turned into a rant, but I'm frustrated.  We have lost all common sense in this country.

[JeffreyS]

That is the way Republicans get elected. They say we will cut spending then don't and Read my lips no new taxes. 
I would much rather lose with the Democrats. Saying there are parts pf America we are going to have to bite the bullet and address and  Tax cuts for the rich so they can invest in jobs in China may not be the answer. The truth will get you elected from time to time but the conservatives prefer to hear their sweet little lies.
If I see the Republicans stop borrowing from the Chinese for their wars and nation building efforts maybe I will meet them half way on some spending cuts in America.

[Coolyfett]

More cars on the road? lol

[BridgeTroll]

That is the way Republicans get elected.

Actually Jeffrey... In Florida at least... the governer was elected because Democrats failed to show up.  I know plenty of republicans who did not vote for Scott.  Railing against republicans is unproductive.  Though it may help you feel better...

[CS Foltz]

Well I don't care for the so-called HSR Project because it is in the middle of the state and is not tru High Speed Rail! The five stops on the project do nothing but slow it down to the point that a vehicle would be about the same run time that the HSR will end up............more stops, more time! Then you factor in......welll it will go to Miami, eventually, goody! No one seems to take into account that HSR does not travel on normal rail tracks....ROW is not the issue, but the money to spend on what is basically a stand alone system! The concept is great, the proposed execution and local stinks!

[JeffreyS]

That is the way Republicans get elected.

Actually Jeffrey... In Florida at least... the governer was elected because Democrats failed to show up.  I know plenty of republicans who did not vote for Scott.  Railing against republicans is unproductive.  Though it may help you feel better...

Hate to admit you may have a point.

[Jaxson]

Tea Party 'RAILS' against ALL TRAINS...

LOL

But seriously, our transportation infrastucture is in the toilet and the Tea Party gang seems to want to keep us in real gridlock on the highways and in the airports.

[BigGuy219]

This rail project should be scrapped. Who is the target market? People down here like their cars, they like driving, and they like being control of when they leave and when they get somewhere. They just don't feel comfortable with public transportation.

And what are these people supposed to do once they get to the rail center in Tampa or Orlando? Stand around waiting for a bus? Charter a taxi cab?

It's a romantic idea to imagine flying down I-4 in a new high speed train, but the what the heck do you do when the train gets you there?

It's just not practical for this area.

[thelakelander]

And what are these people supposed to do once they get to the rail center in Tampa or Orlando?

I'll admit, I've never really understood this argument.  How do you get around in cities if fly to them, since there's no little airplanes to fly you to the different neighborhoods?  My guess is they'll either rent a car, get a taxi, catch a ride or use mass transit (Orlando will at least have Sunrail).  Modify the land use around stations and over time, walking will also become a viable option for many.

It's a romantic idea to imagine flying down I-4 in a new high speed train, but the what the heck do you do when the train gets you there?

It's just not practical for this area.

I also think Florida's HSR plan has holes all in it and could become a project that does rail more damage than good in this state.  HSR may not be practical for that area but commuter rail or reliable corridor service linking Central Florida's chain of cities is.

[BigGuy219]

And what are these people supposed to do once they get to the rail center in Tampa or Orlando?

I'll admit, I've never really understood this argument.  How do you get around in cities if fly to them, since there's no little airplanes to fly you to the different neighborhoods?  My guess is they'll either rent a car, get a taxi, catch a ride or use mass transit (Orlando will at least have Sunrail).  Modify the land use around stations and over time, walking will also become a viable option for many.

When you fly into a city you usually get hit with a huge taxi fare to get to your final destination. That works when you've flown to a city 5+ hours away. But to think people in the I-4 corridor are going to hop on a train, and then pay for a cab, to spare themselves a 2 hour drive (faster with the way some nuts drive) is just foolish.

This is a train to nowhere. The rail equivalent of our skyway. The people who comute between Tampa and Orlando are just not "rail people."

[thelakelander]

They say people here won't walk but they do inside of a mall or at SJTC.  So in reality, people will walk if there is something worth walking to and the walking environment is pedestrian friendly. 

Growing up between Tampa and Orlando, I'm not so sure that a percentage would not take advantage of a decently designed system.....IF one existed.  HSR will fail between Orlando and Tampa because it isn't designed to serve the average daily commuter between these two cities.  Most people on I-4 aren't driving directly from Tampa's DT to Orlando's airport.  Instead, they're making shorter trips such as a Haines City to Orlando, Plant City to Lakeland or a Brandon to Tampa.  

A corridor based service, using the existing CSX line that actually penetrates the DT of nearly every city along I-4 would be more usable for the people who live in these cities and significantly cheaper.  A stop in each downtown would give those using such a service a walkable destination in each city.  That reach could then grow if these municipalities improve their local mass transit services to connect riders to other areas of these individual cities.

I guess what I'm saying is, that we don't know if people in Central Florida are "rail people" because there's no logically designed rail for them to use.  My guess is people there (and in Jacksonville) are just like people in the rest of the country.  Put in a decent dependable system and a segment of the population will use it and another segment won't.