Potential New Rail Service for South Florida

[tufsu1]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/linked-local-express-rail-services-proposed-to-connect-1031711.html

btw...local firm RS&H is on the consultant team for the planning/environmenal studies

[fsujax]

The comments at the end of the article are interesting. I thought they were so much more progressive than us down there!

[Ocklawaha]

Others were worried that the price of a regional rail project was too much to even consider. "I am not against a modern transit system. I am all for it, as long as the people who use it pay for it. I'm not going to pay for a train that I don't use," said Charlie Helton, of Boca Raton.

SORRY CHARLIE, bet you helped pay for those streets that you don't use too. Hell's bells, I'm not in 3rd grade anymore but I sure as hell don't mind paying for those classes.

OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

How many times do we have to here the uniformed talk about those that ride the transit line being the only beneficiaries. If those lines reduce your traffic or more importantly spur private investment (widely quoted as $6to$8 dollars for every one invested) in you benefit. If more urban style investment comes to your county so the locals do not have to put in new plumbing, new schools and all that sprawl demands you benefit. The list of ancillary benefits go on and on from this type of investment. I know this stuff is stated over and over again on this site but there are always newbies who have only heard about the ticket sales not justifying the investment and never hearing that the Wachovia building is downtown because the company wanted it near the skyway.

[simms3]

Some of the posters have a point though...does it really need to go to Jupiter?  Also they have invested heavily in Tri-Rail, why not expand service and make it run more often with the introduction of feeder lines?  Also...40-60 stops??  That seems excessive, almost like bus service.  They don't need 40-60 stops.  Also, bullet trains??  OK now they are really going overboard.

The project could be great, but even voters who are pro-rail realize that at this point in time it is too dreamy and would be wasteful.

[Ocklawaha]

Not really wasteful, keep in mind this is idea making by a bunch of politicians. If/when a few of Florida's REAL rail planners get a bite of this, it will drop to something like maybe twice the same amount of stations that Tri-Rail currently has. This is only because the FEC runs through each of the DOWNtown segments of South Florida.

This timetable segment from 1957 FEC RY passenger trains shows all of the original stations on this line, which today will equate into not just tariff shipping points, but usually a siding, passing track or even a station or site, the locations will have to be the premium locations for probable stops:

note, I extended this to Hobe Sound, as it was ALWAYS the major stop while Jupiter was a mere flagstop, how much you want to bet by the time the trains start rolling, Hobe Sound will reappear?

Ar Hobe Sound   
Ar Jupiter                           
Ar Monet                              
Ar Lake Park                           
Ar Riviera Beach                          
Ar West Palm Beach   
Ar Lake Worth   
Ar Hypoluxo                           
Ar Boynton Beach                        
Ar Delray Beach   
Ar Boca Raton   
Ar Deerfield Beach                              
Ar Pompano Beach   
Ar Oakland Park                           
Ar Fort Lauderdale   
Ar Dania                           
Ar Hollywood   
Ar Hallandale                           
Ar Ojus                        
Ar North Miami Beach                          
Ar North Miami   
Ar Little River                          
Ar Miami

Trust me Simms, this thing is headed for a reality check right along with Florida's stupid HSR project.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

the idea here is for Tri-Rail to serve as regional (inter-city) rail...the FEC line would serve as local rail (think light rail) in the 3 counties.

sure, few people would ride from Jupiter all the way to Miami on the FEC...but they could go on shorter trips like Jupiter-West Palm, West Palm-Boca, Boca-Ft. Lauderdale, and Hollywood-Miami.

As for HSR Ock, I'm pretty sure it will remain as is.

[Ocklawaha]

As for HSR Ock, I'm pretty sure it will remain as is.

With any luck Scott will pull the plug on it, and if not, I'll be saying "I told you so..." to a whole new group of yahoos.

Florida needs to have a reality check, and get the "pie in the sky" projects down to earth and a scale the state can easily afford, HSR is NOT IT. HrSR might be the ticket provided Tallahassee can recall what railroad's do best, like city center to city center, network with OTHER trains, C O N N E C T  U S, and use what we already have. Build a Statewide system of trains with capacity increases for the host railroads, and when it catches on...platy it forward.

OCKLAWAHA

[simms3]

Ock I forwarded the link to your blog detailing why HSR is doomed for failure in Florida to my urban transportation teacher.  She is an employee of RS&H and former employee of FDOT (she also headed FDOT's Broward office).  IMO she is a blithering idiot (so if you would know who I am talking about please don't say that I said that ).  She is from S FL and has lived for a long time in Orlando.  That being said, when I sent her the link, she sent me back a response like:


Thanks for sending these - not sure exactly what Blogger # 1 is saying - if he's arguing about serving Orlando, he should probably realize that 40-50 million tourists a year come through the Orlando airport destined for other locations around the State (Tampa, SW Florida, the Panhandle, and especially South Florida).  The route isn't all about just the residents, but the total ridership demand (residents, business travel, and tourist travel).  Jax will never be as large a market as Central Florida or South Florida - not that it isn't a great place, just not nearly as much travel activity.

I don't know why she responded the way she did; she clearly did not read your article and obviously missed my point (or really lack thereof) of sending her that (it wasn't to say Jacksonville is great and needs HSR, but she knows I'm from here).

Also, I do understand her point about pure ridership numbers, but it seems to me that service between Orlando International and Disney would not be nearly frequent enough to capture those passengers.  If I was a foreign or out of state vacationer in the airport, instead of waiting an hour or two or three for a train, I would pick up a cab or a rental car, even if it meant I would be sitting in traffic.  I just would not want to be waiting any longer in the airport, and how much are the tickets going to be from the airport to the convention center to Disney?  With that route it is true that the bulk of riders would be on that corridor, but since it's such a short distance they can't be charged very much and so how are they going to support the system even 5-10%?  Business travelers going between cities are willing to pay higher ticket prices, and there could potentially be as many intrastate biz travelers as tourists on that short route.

Anyway, I'm with you.  I also do hope the S FL idea gets scaled down because in its current state it's even more pipe dream than the HSR.  I also agree that Hobe Sound/Stuart is a much better place for a stop than Jupiter (do people even leave their houses in Jupiter/Tequesta? lol).

[Ocklawaha]

Just one more of the deluded minions...  I fear you and I will BOTH be saying "I told you so..."

50 Million?  Try, J.D. Power and Associates rated Orlando International the No. 1 airport in the country in terms of customer satisfaction. It is the 15th-busiest airport in the U.S. with about 35 million passengers using it annually. Will it hit 50, maybe, but how many of those 50 fly to Orlando to get to Tampa? The mouse either gets tourists on package deals, or folks that drive the whole trip, if they drive they don't need a flying train, if they have a package they already have transportation... so...

You might send this to her, I have it IN PRINT that the Jacksonville Terminal Station downtown was built to handle the crowds until at least 1950! Damn! Way past time for Amtrak to expand it huh?

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

"Mom, I don't want to go to Disney..."

http://www.youtube.com/v/q-owoD-6Jdw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param%20name=

OCKLAWAHA