Q'uran Burning By Gainesville Nutcase.

[buckethead]

That was difficult. No. Of course I don't think that is happening.

There have been others in this thread insisting he is partly responsible for violence and murder committed by others. This is the point I have been arguing against for the latter part of the thread.

Whether he will be held financially responsible for security costs is debatable and we'll know the outcome soon enough.

How can you really separate the two? If it's debatable he's responsible for security costs, then it must be debatable that he's responsible for the security threat. And it certainly is. We're clearly not on page 18 of saying "hear hear!"

And I thought you already knew the outcome. You usually say so matter-of-fact that he's not going to have to pay. Clearly the city of Gainesville thinks otherwise, so it's good that you finally acknowledge that the outcome remains to be seen.

Was there a security threat or was there a perceived security threat? Is it possible the City of Gainseville over reacted?

Additionally, being found liable for the cost of unsolicited security from an overzealous municipality is not quite the same as being guilty of murder. If you recall, you insisted earlier that he was at least partially responsible for any retalitory violence or murders committed by others. Being found liable for security costs by a cash strapped municipality is a far cry from a murder conviction. BTW people were killed in violence overseas and it was attributed to his threat to burn the book.

I stand by my prediction (a link to google if you are unfamiliar with the concept of prediction) that he will not have to pay a dime.

[Cricket]

Well, what did we learn from this whole discussion? We learned that the Constitution gives us the freedom to offend and provoke with impunity. Bucket is right in this regard. What we don't have is a mandate to respect others and be conscious of other countries' sensibilities like their religious symbols. That consciousness we learn from our own values, our parents, teachers, churches, etc. Without that sense of responsibility, we can hide behind the Constitution and claim freedom from all consequences for our actions. This is only my take.

[BridgeTroll]

I agree with you Cricket.  You say...

What we don't have is a mandate to respect others and be conscious of other countries' sensibilities like their religious symbols. That consciousness we learn from our own values, our parents, teachers, churches, etc.

I think we DO have a mandate.  It is a social contract that MOST of us HAVE learned from our parents, teachers, churches, etc.  The preacher was wrong and most of us posting on this subject have said so over and over.  Your "take" is correct... it is mine and Buckets, and Stephens etc.

Most of the discussion and disagreement have been about topics orbiting around this central theme.

[Dog Walker]

But couldn't you see how it could have escalated without the sheriff's office providing security.

Christian nutcase burns Quran.

Muslim nutcase burns Christian nutcase.

Muslim nutcase put in prison.

Muslim nutcases around world riot and burn American embassies to free imprisoned nutcase.

Muslim nutcase governments make threatening speeches.

US invades Muslim countries because of threatening speeches.

UH wait!  We already have, haven't we.  (OK, Taliban did more than make speeches.)

I think if we were not in Iraq and Afghanistan, Christian nutcases wouldn't be talking about burning the Quran or at least no one would care much.

[cityimrov]

I see now why our system is a Republic instead of a Direct Democracy.  It's a lot easier to convince ONE person to change their minds then it is to convince an entire army of people to change their minds.  Imagine that instead of convincing this single pastor of this church you needed to convince the entire congregation!

Even if that person isn't the smartest person in the room, convincing that ONE person allows our system to function without any violence, massive argument to a scale we haven't seen, and so forth.

[JeffreyS]

While I agree the guy is scum culpability has to fall first on the people who committed the killings.  I would love someone to find a legal recourse against that agent of Satan.

[JeffreyS]

+1

[JeffreyS]

If it could be proven that he has been given enough information that people would likely die as a direct result of his actions.  I could support pretty strong punishment. I want to reiterate the people most responsible are the killers.

[Doctor_K]

The whole thing is just ridiculous.

One nutjob burns a book that another religion considers holy.  So the followers of that religion go out and kill people over it.

Barbaric.

[Timkin]

Monkey see monkey do

[NotNow]

It is crazy.  It is crazy when the KKK marches in the streets, or the Black Panthers, or for a church to protest at soldiers funerals over the governments policy on homosexuality.  But this is America, and we can burn any book we want to.

[finehoe]

Free speech means you can say what you want, but it does not mean there will not be consequences for saying it.

[peestandingup]

All the latest posts are correct. Yeah, the guy was stupid & just trying to get a rise outta people, but still. These people are seriously fucked in the head & are just looking for violence. Remember the whole cartoon thing?? A CARTOON!

This is really the basis of why we shouldn't even be over there trying to inject our form of freedom & democracy. Two completely different cultures & it'll never work. You simply can't deal with this type of instilled craziness on this large of a scale.

[NotNow]

Free speech means you can say what you want, but it does not mean there will not be consequences for saying it.

I think that is the point.  Freedom of speech can cause uneasiness, riots, even injuries and deaths.  But the government doesn't get to decide what speech is allowed.

[wsansewjs]

All the latest posts are correct. Yeah, the guy was stupid & just trying to get a rise outta people, but still. These people are seriously fucked in the head & are just looking for violence. Remember the whole cartoon thing?? A CARTOON!

This is really the basis of why we shouldn't even be over there trying to inject our form of freedom & democracy. Two completely different cultures & it'll never work. You simply can't deal with this type of instilled craziness on this large of a scale.

It's like this whole thing is about who has the most honor. If you are going to fight with speech, FIGHT back with speech. If you are going get hit by speech, then your response is violence, then you have NO honor of whatever.

People who resorts to violence are animals.

-Josh