Discussions about How to Approach Improving JTA.

[ChriswUfGator]

I think part of what singe was trying to comment on is the issue of marketing and community awareness.  Unless you actually try to use our current crappy system you would have no idea where it goes or how it works.  Unless forced... few of us will ever take the time or effort to figure it out.  Even seasoned riders such as Stephen have difficulty with cryptic signage.  A little public outreach might go a long way towards boosting usage.

Well yes, it's certainly a catch-22 isn't it?

The reason nobody rides it is because it's horribly broken. It creates this paradox of being forced to acknowledge that it's not broken before it can be fixed.  

[BridgeTroll]

I think part of what singe was trying to comment on is the issue of marketing and community awareness.  Unless you actually try to use our current crappy system you would have no idea where it goes or how it works.  Unless forced... few of us will ever take the time or effort to figure it out.  Even seasoned riders such as Stephen have difficulty with cryptic signage.  A little public outreach might go a long way towards boosting usage.

Well yes, it's certainly a catch-22 isn't it?

The reason nobody rides it is because it's horribly broken. It creates this paradox of being forced to acknowledge that it's not broken before it can be fixed. 

Truth be told... I only "know" what I have read here and word of mouth regarding its "horribly broken" state.  A smart ad campaign/public awarenesss effort might put a few more people in the seats who would not otherwise give it a second thought.  Targeting teens might be a good start.  I have been in plenty cities with TV/radio spots and billboards selling the system.

[ChriswUfGator]

I think part of what singe was trying to comment on is the issue of marketing and community awareness.  Unless you actually try to use our current crappy system you would have no idea where it goes or how it works.  Unless forced... few of us will ever take the time or effort to figure it out.  Even seasoned riders such as Stephen have difficulty with cryptic signage.  A little public outreach might go a long way towards boosting usage.

Well yes, it's certainly a catch-22 isn't it?

The reason nobody rides it is because it's horribly broken. It creates this paradox of being forced to acknowledge that it's not broken before it can be fixed. 

Truth be told... I only "know" what I have read here and word of mouth regarding its "horribly broken" state.  A smart ad campaign/public awarenesss effort might put a few more people in the seats who would not otherwise give it a second thought.  Targeting teens might be a good start.  I have been in plenty cities with TV/radio spots and billboards selling the system.

Well why don't you give it a shot? Instead of taking the car to work tomorrow, why not take the bus?

Just leave verrrrrrrrrrry early.

[BridgeTroll]

Thanks Chris...  I appreciate your always positive feedback. 

[tufsu1]

Please tell me when I'm allowed to post and on which topics.  I would like to post on more but can't hang out on this board 24/7 as others do.  Well, really just stephen.

Live_Oak....I grant you full permission to post on topics I am not engaged in 

[ChriswUfGator]

Thanks Chris...  I appreciate your always positive feedback.  

No, really, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything.

I don't think many people realize how FUBAR it all is until you actually try to ride the bus.

[BridgeTroll]

Thanks Chris...  I appreciate your always positive feedback. 

No, really, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything.

I don't think many people realize how FUBAR it all is until you actually try to ride the bus.

That is sort of the point.  New arrivals to Jax or long time residents "know" a few things.  Downtown sucks, JTA sucks, etc... without ever really giving them a chance.  A smart ad campaign emphasizing "being green"(I hear that is popular) and targeting teens and students might increase awareness of the system and increase ridership... at least among that demographic.

[Singejoufflue]

Thank you BridgeTroll! From now on I will have you translate for me, because apparently that seems to help!

On my way home, as I was reading on the bus, I came across a line that seemed a perfect fit for our issue with JTA.  Here me out.  BridgeTroll, please stand by to translate:

"However, by putting a limit sign in front of a series, you separate the process from the goal."  (Zero: A Biography of a Dangerous Idea, page 129)

Applied to this situation: we seem to only focus on articulating how badly we are missing the goal of a successful (not just working) JTA, and have no concern for the process needed to achieve said goal and there is no consensus on how far we are willing to go in order to fix transit.

For me, the process HAS to include a community outreach program that gets people on-board the system before it's finished, and a full analysis of the different transit systems that would be viable in Jax (I know, many have been done, I'd like them put together for honest comparison). 

The limit to fixing the system is the bigger issue.  What has been proposed elsewhere, in this thread/board/ether, is a MASSIVE overhaul of the transit system for light rail, streetcars, community shuttles, express buses, human-powered inline bubble bikes, teleportation devices and everything else under the sun.  I'm not saying we shouldn't dream big on this.  Indeed we should; however, before we line up behind any of those proposals, we need to know how much the community is willing to pay.  Not only in financial terms, but in the sacrifice to current users endured during an "in-progress" transformation; in tearing up the roads for YEARS for another project; in changing the mindset of an apathetic community that maybe 20 minutes extra during your commute IS worth it.

[CS Foltz]

Singejoufflue.........I do agree with the gist of your post, but have to point out there is a better way,IMHO, by just making use of what we have and making it not only efficient but user friendly! Lots we could do without having any increase in the financial end of things, but at some point that would have to be considered! Get the simple bus's we have going on a proper schedule, with decent headways and routed where they could actually be used for what they are designed for! Stop inane rescheduling and route changing, keep it simple and yeah....how about some simple shelters to go with that! BRT is a waste in its current proposed form!

[Singejoufflue]

CS, I agree with making the current system more user-friendly, that is a priority regardless to the end game.  But, is a mere retooling of what we have going far enough?  Is that the right answer for Jax?  A few buses with improved routes and better signage?  I say there needs to be a comprehensive change in the leadership, vision, communication, and function at JTA. 

[CS Foltz]

  I say there needs to be a comprehensive change in the leadership, vision, communication, and function at JTA. 

Can't argue in rebutal to that, since I agree! But to gut down to the bear bones, might not be cost efficient! I am more concerned about doing something correctly with what we have! Proper routes, that don't change just for looks! Routes that are layed out with proper headways and in an area that looks to use Bus as their primary mode of transportation! Spine and feeder system should apply to bus as well as rail, but we don't use what we have correctly! We lack shelters, a basic minimum, we surely lack an Administration that makes use of what we have now...............if they can not change their mindset and cater to the public, then I am all for pulling all of their plugs and starting over!

[ChriswUfGator]

Thanks Chris...  I appreciate your always positive feedback. 

No, really, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything.

I don't think many people realize how FUBAR it all is until you actually try to ride the bus.

That is sort of the point.  New arrivals to Jax or long time residents "know" a few things.  Downtown sucks, JTA sucks, etc... without ever really giving them a chance.  A smart ad campaign emphasizing "being green"(I hear that is popular) and targeting teens and students might increase awareness of the system and increase ridership... at least among that demographic.

That's bad business, IMHO.

You generally get much farther focusing your efforts on delivering a quality product than you would wasting resources on advertising a crappy product. Since JTA can't sell bus service to shopaholic OCD insomniacs at 3am, gimmicky advertising isn't going to help the situation. Everyone in the city is well aware that JTA exists and knows what it does. The reason people don't use JTA is because the product is substandard and more trouble than its worth, not because anyone doesn't know about it. 

[Doctor_K]

+1

[Singejoufflue]

You can "know" a lot about sex and without ever actually doing it. Experience, partnered with education, a little curiosity and sense of adventure go a long way in transit as well.

We have a system that isn't great.  We ALL agree on that.  However, what is your solution to improving ridership immediately?

[ChriswUfGator]

You can "know" a lot about sex and without ever actually doing it. Experience, partnered with education, a little curiosity and sense of adventure go a long way in transit as well.

We have a system that isn't great.  We ALL agree on that.  However, what is your solution to improving ridership immediately?

First off, I've ridden the bus. It sucks. I know that, and so does everybody else. I have lived in cities with actual working mass transit, as have many others, and we know what the differences are. I'm not a child, and certainly not your child, so please knock it off with this silly crap. You won't get very far automatically assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is uninformed.

And secondly, despite your constant implications that nobody "knows" what they're talking about, you haven't actually bothered to read this site's transit articles and discussions, have you? Because, for the past 3+ years, everyone here including myself has listed idea after idea for improving JTA and public transit in Jacksonville.

So, rather than asking me to retype all of it for you, so that you can pretend we are now being constructive only after you came along and rescued us from ourselves, why not actually do some reading using the search function? There have been at least 3 or 4 front page articles on this site this year alone about transit and JTA, and countless forum discussions. We have already hashed this out countless times. Do your reading.