Lost Church, Lost Battlefield, Lost Cemetery, Lost War

[JaxHistory]

Just returned from the site. Have some reservations about there actually being remnants of the old cemetery out there.

I think y'all are correct about the fact that there was once a cemetery there. The outline of the tress would seem to indicate this, or in the very least that there was a large open space there.   However, I found it very hard to disseminate between the debris from the old houses, as well as the inordinate amount of trash, and what seems to be portrayed as tombstones in the above picture.

Here are some questions that I hope one of y'all can answer:

• If we are to assume that this was a cemetery in place before the War, is it likely that the tombstones would be made out of stone and/or that they would still survive.  Keeping in mind that this area seems to have transitioned form Residential to Industrial over the years.
• Keeping in mind the numerous uses over the years, is plausible that if this was a cemetery it was moved and/or demolished.

All that being said this is very exciting.  Can't wait to find out more. 

[Cliffs_Daughter]

Well something's up with the site - it doesn't have a parcel ID in the GIS maps or tax property search. No definable address, nothing to show ownership of that block now. Surrounding areas are marked, but nothing at all on the lot in question.

[stjr]

Stephen, did you catch my post #90 regarding checking the records of First Baptist Church which apparently became the owner of the subject cemetery?  Any more on your maps?

[devlinmann]

I am greatly enjoying this thread, more please!!

[Timkin]

This is very interesting.. I would love to visit this site....

A related (but not to this cemetary)   ...Allegedly  there was a small Cemetary in Arlington (Approximately at or near the intersections of Mt.Pleasent/ Fort Caroline .  Now  a Subdivision is over it..

So it is not shocking at all to learn that this happened in that instance as well..

For all we know ..100 years from now, when none of us are here , or are too old to care,  There will be something built on all of the existing cemetaries ... I think this is SO wrong...

[fltelman]

I have a friend that found a small canon ball at this site in the 1980s. He used a metal detector and knew that there had been a civil war battle on that site.

As for the cemetery, I wonder if someone could use ground-penetrating radar like they did at Lee Kirkland cemetery.  http://americancityandcounty.com/pubwks/parks_grounds_pests/fight_remains_pride_lee/

http://fl-genweb.org/duval/dcems/index.html

[JaxNative68]

This is very interesting.. I would love to visit this site....

A related (but not to this cemetary)   ...Allegedly  there was a small Cemetary in Arlington (Approximately at or near the intersections of Mt.Pleasent/ Fort Caroline .  Now  a Subdivision is over it..

So it is not shocking at all to learn that this happened in that instance as well..

For all we know ..100 years from now, when none of us are here , or are too old to care,  There will be something built on all of the existing cemetaries ... I think this is SO wrong...

There is also a small cemetery that still stands off Fort Caroline Road in the Cove St. John's neighborhood.  If I remember correctly, some of the graves date back to the 1800's and some as recent as the 1970's.  Growing up, I was always creeped out by it because it was almost in my backyard.  I was told it was the family cemetery of the old plantation that used to occupy the land of the neighborhood.  The coj.net property maps do not show an address or owner of this property.  Its off Cove St Johns Road, between 6873 and 3972.  If anyone knows anything about this cemetery, please post the info.

[spuwho]

This is an old thread, but I just picked up on it. If you look at this;

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/gmd/gmd393/g3934/g3934j/pm001140.sid&style=pmmap&itemLink=D?gmd:7:./temp/~ammem_IprG::&title=Jacksonville,+Florida.+

aerial view map of Jacksonville from 1893, you will see the church at the dead end of Monroe. What is today Myrtle, is a 3 block NW road (unidentified in view) between Adams and Church. That NW kink in Myrtle is still there today. If I didn't know better, I would say the original church is in the back and someone has built a house, a school or a bigger church in front of it. The map numbers all churches, and this one is not identifed as a church here. It also sits at an odd angle relative to the rest of the lots, something stephendare pointed out on the early platting map.

I assume the cemetery was in the back.

Ock may like the fact that this map shows a horse drawn traction service coming in off Church, through Myrtle and down Adams, right in front of the church. If you follow what is Myrtle today south of the tracks, it is Haskell Street and Peach Street in Brooklyn.

These renditions are tricky as you can't be sure, but what is Mary Street in 1893 is Minnie Street today. Division (Cleveland Street) has been relocated due to I-95. Kinsman Street is now Eaverson.

This area is tough to map out because the original platting is based on the downtown alignment with the St Johns River. It appears a new platting was done west of Division (Cleveland) which takes on a north/south grid layout. Hence the streets all have small kinks and abbreviated turns to compensate.

Tegeron Street (now Blanche) crosses the "S" Line at Old Kings Road.

Based on the history of FBC and Bethel, it would be interesting to see who really owns the lots now.

[spuwho]

The Sanborn Map of 1887 shows the location (lots 1440-1442).

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00074182/00003/72x?td=jacksonville&n=palmm

Today, where Monroe turns north into Duval Street is actually a remnant of Hanover Street. Monroe Street has a pinch in its ROW to accommodate the fact that the structure predated the street by many years. The structure is long gone, but the ROW remains the same.

[spuwho]

I went out to this site today to check it out and while it is still a haven for trash and other peoples dumping, I did see a 7 foot fence (torn down in places) which surrounds a piece of land just west of where the Old Brick Church was located.

Even though the street signs for Monroe are still there and technically it is a public street, a sign was thrown up saying no trespassing or dumping. (obviously no one cared).

The remaining domicile on Duval Street is for sale and I thought it funny that the street is still brick on this block!

I would have gotten out to look for some headstones or other remnants of the cemetery or church until JSO showed up.

Either someone called me in for driving around, or he happened to come by on Myrtle to see if I was dumping something. Whatever the case was I couldn't stay and moved on.

[ghamilton]

What agency,institution or group can take the lead in examination,research and preservation of this important site?Is there a foundation already in place that has the interest? An article could be written,sent to various outlets to get a bright light shown on this period and its drama.  There are several Civil War groups that need to be made aware what happened there and what remains.

[Ocklawaha]

Union Veteran and Author Ambrose Bierce's opinion of the war:

Emerging from the charnel house, Bierce shunned any effort to invest the butchery with meaning - including the North's smug myth of a Battle Cry of Freedom (still cherished by many contemporary historians, as it flatters their sense of their own righteousness). For him the war was nothing more - could be nothing more - than a meaningless and murderous slaughter, devoid of virtue or purpose.

"DEO VINDICE AMBROSE," Ocklawaha


National Park Service Technical Assistance Programs
The National Park Service (NPS) provides technical assistance to its partners -- State, tribal, and local governments, federal agencies, private organizations, and universities -- to promote the protection and preservation of cultural resources. This may take the form of advisory consultation, planning services, site visits, and co-sponsored conferences and workshops. The information and activities are generally available to a broad public as well.
American Battlefield Protection Program

The American Battlefield Protection Program (ABPP) helps communities near historic battlefields to develop local solutions for balanced preservation approaches for these sites. In addition to awarding small matching funds to organizations sponsoring planning and educational projects at historic battlefields, ABPP historians, preservation planners, and archeologists provide technical assistance to owners of battlefield property, battlefield friends groups, and state and local governments interested in preserving historic battlefield land and sites. More information is available at http://www.cr.nps.gov/hps/abpp/index.htm.



SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS

Send E-Mail to the Division General Executive Council:
gec@florida-scv.org

DIVISION COMMANDER:
DOUGLAS D. DAWSON
2421 LE RUTH DRIVE
PENSACOLA, FL 32514
(850) 478-3398
dddawson@bellsouth.net

DIVISION ADJUTANT:
ARCHIE L. MATTHEWS
11012 NW 202ND ST
ALACHUA, FL 32615
(386) 462-3016
adjutant@florida-scv.org

6th BRIGADE COMMANDER:
CALVIN HART
4884 VICTORIA CHASE CT
JACKSONVILLE, FL 32257
(904) 730-0343
calvinhart@bellsouth.net



SONS OF UNION VETERANS - DEPARTMENT OF FLORIDA

ELECTED DEPARTMENT OFFICERS

COMMANDER....Michael E. Farrell / 321-676-8352
1952 Muirfield Way SE
Palm Bay, FL 32909
Email - llmitchell@c4dofsuvcw.org

SENIOR VICE COMMANDER....John M. Vaughn III, PCC
EMAIL - suvyankee1@aol.com

JUNIOR VICE COMMANDER....David A. Hoover, CC
EMAIL - dhoover2@gmail.com



PATRIOT GUARD RIDERS
(VETERAN REMAINS RECOVERY)

Florida

Mike Donohoe
havananole@yahoo.com


"SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS,"