Trimming the Fat: How to reduce the cost of JTA's BRT

[ChriswUfGator]

Yeah I think that's the main issue most people have with B(R)T. The existing bus system habitually runs hopelessly behind schedule, there are no shelters, the route structure is asinine, and most riders have to take 2, 3, 4, or more different buses, not to mention waste several hours of their time, trying to go a few miles. It's pathetic.

Why not fix the systemwide problems at JTA first? Why are we building another expensive and complicated additional sub-system here, when the basic system is completely FUBAR? JTA is putting its cart before the horse, IMO...

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Yeah I think that's the main issue most people have with B(R)T. The existing bus system habitually runs hopelessly behind schedule, there are no shelters, the route structure is asinine, and most riders have to take 2, 3, 4, or more different buses, not to mention waste several hours of their time, trying to go a few miles. It's pathetic.

Why not fix the systemwide problems at JTA first? Why are we building another expensive and complicated additional sub-system here, when the basic system is completely FUBAR? JTA is putting its cart before the horse, IMO...

Just so I can understand where you're coming from....  How often do you ride the hopelessy behind schedule bus?

[ChriswUfGator]

Yeah I think that's the main issue most people have with B(R)T. The existing bus system habitually runs hopelessly behind schedule, there are no shelters, the route structure is asinine, and most riders have to take 2, 3, 4, or more different buses, not to mention waste several hours of their time, trying to go a few miles. It's pathetic.

Why not fix the systemwide problems at JTA first? Why are we building another expensive and complicated additional sub-system here, when the basic system is completely FUBAR? JTA is putting its cart before the horse, IMO...

Just so I can understand where you're coming from....  How often do you ride the hopelessy behind schedule bus?

Wouldn't the correct question be "How much more often would I use the bus if it didn't take 3 hours to go 10 miles?"

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Let's start with - I have a car.  My commute is from Lake Shore to the Northside.  I can drive it in 25-30 minutes each way for about $20-$25/wk in gas (Doesn't include wear & tear on the car).  I can bike it in about an hour, it's free - but it doesn't include the wear & tear on my.  JTA is 45-50 minutes.  It's $10 per week, and I don't have to fight the traffic.  I honestly enjoy the ride home, because it gives me options:  finish what I was working on on the laptop, read a book, just zone out and put in the ear-buds. 

I understand that time is money, but what I get in exchange for that time (about 3 hours a week) is peacful so I don't mind.  The same reason people do home projects, I ride the bus. Confused, yeah, I know.

Building a deck at home - 3 weekends or roughly 40 hours @ $30/hr + $1,500 in material = $2,700
Contractor Quote - $1,900.

You think you're saving money, but it's more about how you feel spending your time. 

[ChriswUfGator]

It doesn't take 30 minutes to go from Lakeshore to the Northside, it takes more like 10 minutes. Just hop on 17 to 95N and you're there. If you took Edgewood all the way up or something, it would probably take 25-30 minutes with all those stoplights.

And you're lucky if it really only takes 45 minutes to make that run by bus. Ask DeadGirlsDontDance about the 2 hours it takes her to get from Springfield to Riverside. That is indicative of the usual experience.

But still, if that's how you want to spend your time, so be it. Not judging. Just saying, most people's bus trips take exponentially longer than yours, and most folks can't afford to deal with JTA.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I'm going to throw this out there, too.  I my travel times are affected due to the times I go to and from the office - I'm there by 7:45 and leaving at 5:30, so I'm on 95 during peak times.  The schedules, I would assume, are based on a typical work week, so in that case, it does work out for me.  I transfer at Rosa Park and honestly get out of one bus and into another that's already there. 

There's a good chance that DDCD's trip takes a while depending on when she goes.  It may also depend on the route she's taking.  Her best option would be Springfield to Rosa Park / People Mover to Convention Center / Trolley or bus into Riverside - there are more routes going by the CV to Riverside than leaving RP to Riverside.  She should have to wait more than 10-15 minutes at each stop, and could tighten that number by checking the schedules.  Have her look into that and get back to me.

[ChriswUfGator]

She reads the forum the same as you or I, so I'm sure she'll see this thread eventually. I'm not normally in the business of planning out ideal bus routes for people and then getting back to anyone about it. That's not really my profession. If you question most peoples' experience with the bus, read Stephen's article about taking 10 hours to go to the equestrian center, or check out any of the comments in other threads on this topic. It is what it is.

[urbanlibertarian]

I've heard from a reliable source that bus service is most reliable in the Northwest Quadrant which is the part of the city where the greatest percentage of residents are dependent upon it.  That may help explain why people in different parts of town have different experiences with JTA.

[CS Foltz]

I've heard from a reliable source that bus service is most reliable in the Northwest Quadrant which is the part of the city where the greatest percentage of residents are dependent upon it.  That may help explain why people in different parts of town have different experiences with JTA.

Based on my bus experiences (note the plural!) I think your more than correct urbanlibertarian! Just a crying shame that region has a severe lack of simple shelters.........along with the rest of the system! I think the totals are now about 1700 .....that is those missing any kind of shelters! Longest I had to wait was about 45 min's and this was on Philips, the proposed BRT route! Gosh.......what a freakin waste of money!

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I suppose since JTA is a reliable transportation mode for myself and 1 other person on this forum, cliff's daughter's husband, and possibly the entire county of duval then I will have to play devil's advocate and propose a challenge.  I am willing to take the route of YOUR choice and see if JTA would be a reasonable choice for you. 
I should probably clear up some more details before taking the challenge that I will present to you all:  1.)  I will have a bike with me, this allows me to travel 1-3 miles quickly and easily if opportunity for an easier transfer is around the corner.  2.) I will dress business casual (like every other day), kakhi pants / button down shirt / dress shoes.  3.)You let me know where I have to travel from and to, and it needs to be your typical commute (i.e. home to work, home to shopping, home to the beach - it can't be going to the store for ice-cream at 9 at night.  4.) I have 1 week to research the route and 5.) 5 attempts within a month to prove my theory (I need a few tries to figure out which bus to catch and where)
I'm betting that I will be able to create a proposal FOR riding JTA as part of your daily commute.  If I'm successful, I challenge the person whose route I am able to use to actually try it for 2 weeks.  I think you'll find a new or probably even first time respect for the service that's provided.

I also want to be clear that I don't have any affilliation with JTA other than a recent mode of transportation, and like most of you on this forum would like to seee man more improvements and additions.  I think there's a lot of possiblity, but the myopic view of those in charge are affecting the system in ways that can/could be more detrimental than they realize. 

JTA needs to reach out to those of us who don't rely on their services, but those of us who choose to use it as another alternative to driving themselves.

[thelakelander]

You can start with the daily commute I take right now.  

Start: Timberlin Park Blvd @ Southside Blvd (Shopping center with Border's Books)

End: 1660 Prudential Dr, Jacksonville, FL 32207 (Downtown Southbank)

By car, the 12 mile commute ranges from 25 - 45 minutes, depending on rush hour traffic conditions and stop light cycles.  Work hours are 8am - 5pm, although it's not uncommon to stay until 7-8pm or travel down to Daytona Beach a couple days out of the week.  

So I would really qualify as a choice rider.  By the nature of my job and company, I dress in suits or dress pants, shirt & tie on a regular basis (haven't worn khakis in years).  A couple of days out of the week, I don't leave downtown or Springfield to after 10pm (Metro Jacksonville meetings).

The commute to my last job was much shorter but I was still hesitant to ride a bike or the bus on Southside Blvd. because of heavy traffic, no sidewalks, no bus shelters, and not being comfortable riding a bike on a shoulder next to drivers who move at +50 mph, merging on/off I-95, and who routinely run over that white line for a variety of purposes (text messaging, switching CDs, putting on makeup, avoiding rear ending people, etc.).

At this point, the only transit mode I use is the skyway, which basically gets me across the river during lunch hour.  I doubt I'll be able to use the bus every day but there would be times that it may be a viable option, if the travel time were efficient and service attractive.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I'll get back to you on this one.

Lake stepped up first, so let's see if I can put my money where my mouth is.

[tufsu1]

Lake is being generoud with the 25-45 nminute commute....I go the opposite way (downtown to the Avenues) and mine ranges from 15 min (morning) to 20-25 min (afternoon).

JTA does offer a route that stops 1 block from my house and ends across Southside from my office at the mall....the trip takes about 40 minutes (then add 5-10 minutes for walking)

[thelakelander]

^I've got my commute timed down to the second.  I've never been able to get downtown in 15 minutes during rush hour northbound.  That's impossible from my location.  A good portion of my time is spent getting to I-95.  I use Western Way, which backs up a couple of blocks south of the Baymeadows signal.  However, its still better than taking Southside to Baymeadows or Southside to Philips to access I-95.  The 45 minutes come into play when I-95 is backed up from Baymeadows up to University, heading northbound.  The worst part about this is that on these days, you can see I-95 traffic slowing down, while driving on Western Way, but there's no real logical alternative route to take north.  Using Baymeadows to get to Philips or San Jose isn't ideal and going down to Philips and then back up, isn't peaches & cream either.  Oh yeah, try to avoid leaving after 7:45am.  You'll find yourself behind a couple of school buses.  All this being said, I would love to have the option of driving to a park & ride at Avenues Walk (a little over a mile south of my origin) and catching a train, that is not subject to regular traffic conditions, into downtown.  Time wise, it could be pretty competitive and I'd save a ton of money on auto maintenance, gas and come November, Northbank parking.

[ChriswUfGator]

The bus is going to be caught in rush hour just like everyone else.