Trimming the Fat: How to reduce the cost of JTA's BRT

[arb]

Wasteful spending!

[CS Foltz]

Wasteful spending!

I would also suggest upper management! No plan A or B..........nothing showing for what ifs! Not to mention one hell of a lack of something as mundane as "Shelters"............with or without advertising! I wonder if we could advertise for replacements?

[ChriswUfGator]

Why don't we tie JTA's pay to on-time performance and customer reviews?

[tufsu1]

FYI....most metro areas are proposing BRT in some form or another in their long-range plans....one example is Tallahassee, where they are set to adopt their 2035 LRTP soon....the Cost feasible Plan has over $65 million allocated for BRT....and their needs plan identified over $200 million for BRT routes throughout the city.

[CS Foltz]

Maybe so tufsu..........but the rail is the "Spine" and BRT is strictly the feeder end ....is it not? ChriswUFGator if JTA did that..........they would go down the tubes in the blink of an eye! On-time performance is in the same catagory as "Shelters" which means it is non-existant!

[tufsu1]

not really CS....both BRT and rail are considered premium transit services, meaning they are the spine....the big problem here is that we have proposed BRT and rail spines in the same corridors/areas.

[CS Foltz]

Your right! This is the basic issue with what JTA is proposing.......no plan and no vision!  I disagree with the BRT, as set forth from JTA, if your definition of "Premium Transit Services" includes "Shelters" as it does! The rest of the system is still without something as basic as a shelter and advertising will not make up the difference! The balance of the Bus system will still be lacking something as mundane and there are no plans to do something about that other than still pushing for advertisements to make it up..........won't happen!

[ChriswUfGator]

Your right! This is the basic issue with what JTA is proposing.......no plan and no vision!  I disagree with the BRT, as set forth from JTA, if your definition of "Premium Transit Services" includes "Shelters" as it does! The rest of the system is still without something as basic as a shelter and advertising will not make up the difference! The balance of the Bus system will still be lacking something as mundane and there are no plans to do something about that other than still pushing for advertisements to make it up..........won't happen!

CS, I think Tufsu means that BRT is considered 'premium' in transportation circles, I don't think he means the people who actually have to wait in the rain for a crappy bus that's 2 hours late consider it a 'premium' experience. He's referring to how JTA and other agencies look at it. I'm pretty certain Tufsu is on our side when it comes to the need for rail.

[JeffreyS]

Your right! This is the basic issue with what JTA is proposing.......no plan and no vision!  I disagree with the BRT, as set forth from JTA, if your definition of "Premium Transit Services" includes "Shelters" as it does! The rest of the system is still without something as basic as a shelter and advertising will not make up the difference! The balance of the Bus system will still be lacking something as mundane and there are no plans to do something about that other than still pushing for advertisements to make it up..........won't happen!

CS, I think Tufsu means that BRT is considered 'premium' in transportation circles, I don't think he means the people who actually have to wait in the rain for a crappy bus that's 2 hours late consider it a 'premium' experience. He's referring to how JTA and other agencies look at it. I'm pretty certain Tufsu is on our side when it comes to the need for rail.

+1

We need commuter rail and streetcar here.  If you want a little skyway expansion fine by me but let's stop trying to reinvent the wheel here.  Commuter rail and Streetcar have proven themselves over time as cost effective ways to impact local economies.

Come on Tufsu let us see you type it one time fixed rail is better than buses gimmicked up to look like trains.

[spuwho]

Did anyone notice that in the JTA proposals for the new I-95/JTB/Philips Highway intersection improvement that there was no accommodation for BRT lanes on Philips Highway?

Doesn't anyone find it odd that in public hearings on a new intersection ($110 M) there is no mention of BRT, and then 4 months later, BRT is announced as this long planned, gotta have activity?

Does the right hand know what the left is doing? Was the whole I-95/JTB intersection hearings just a political activity to get TBJP auditors off JTA's collective back?

Does this tell you that BRT was a "throw some cash at it" stimulus activity?

Mass Transit in Jacksonville can't be a "take the money and run" activity. It takes a holistic, well thought out plan with public support to fund it effectively over its life. Otherwise, BRT will just become another Skyway, except with wheels.

[thelakelander]

BRT and commuter rail were mentioned in the JTB/Philips presentation I attended.  However, it was clear that little to no real effort had been made to integrate the two.  For example, this road project had a huge retention pond being constructed on the proposed commuter rail/BRT park & ride site.  While the site can easily accommodate a pond, it would be best to make sure it is designed to an amenity that would integrate seamlessly with the proposed rail station and potential TOD opportunities.  In addition, zero thought had been put into making sure transit riders can access anything east of I-95 without being forced into a gas based vehicle.

Here is an article about this in further detail: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jun-jtas-plans-for-i-95jtb-interchange-shortsighted

[JeffreyS]

Why am I not surprised.

[tufsu1]

Come on Tufsu let us see you type it one time fixed rail is better than buses gimmicked up to look like trains.

ok Jeffrey...sure rail is better than buses for fixed-route operations...

....but....

there is always a question of cost....if you're going to do high-end BRT (at $20+ million a mile) than you might as well just do rail....but I do believe there is a place for enhanced bus (call it BRT-lite) that would cost less than $3 million a mile.

As to the Philips Hwy corridor...I like commuter rail as a way of providing an alternative to the car during peak periods....but a train every 60 minutes during the rest of the day isn't exactly ideal...so unless we can get good usage agreements from FEC (or buy the tracks), we'll still need better bus service on the corridor too.

My main issue from the beginning has been that JTA intends to request FTA funding for both BRT and commuter rail...I doubt FTA will be interested in funding both projects in the same corridor.

[thelakelander]

Why no focus on relating economic development to cost? Quite frankly, it's more important than being a congestion relief alternative.

[thelakelander]

I'm also of the belief that we can and should have better reliable bus service on Philips without the attempted FTA BRT money grap.