Bashing Jacksonville gets a little old

[Clem1029]

Meh...I never said this place doesn't have a history (which is a stupid statement...everywhere has a history). My claim is that the culture of the city doesn't reflect the history. The readily observable culture around here is nothing really beyond <insert random city here>. You come close with the claim of "the rest of the country finally caught up to what Jacksonville already had," but even then, that's a negative for us - everyone else has what we have, PLUS some additional cultural background that comes from it's history that adds to the city's appeal.

Should Jacksonville have a fantastically defined culture based on it's history? Sure.

Does it? Again...meh - it's arguable that it's allowed itself to become just a generic American city.

Again, the history is fascinating in it's own right...but it's in the form of stores that need to be told, rather than history that smacks you in the face the minute you hear or set foot in the city.

[Scarlettjax]

Today, out on Old St. Augustine Road, seeing the hundreds of people welcoming Marine Corporal Tyler Southern back home...I was damn proud to be a resident of this city. 

Links to some of the photos here:
http://photos.jacksonville.com/mycapture/category.asp?eventID=1061375&CategoryID=14346

[I-10east]

That joker who lives in that God-forsaken backwater craphole G-ville is talkin' noise about Jax? Just another reason for me to hate Gainesville. They might as well just rename it Gatorville, because that's the only thing that it's known for.

[uptowngirl]

It is appearing to be a common thread in Jacksonville, some strong and talented women lived here, whether they be suffragists, brothel owners, jazz artists, business owners, artists, authors, or architects. It is unfortunate that most of the "places" these women lived, worked, or created are gone-but I would definately consider taking a vacation with my daughter to visit a museum based on this history. What if we still had the "Jacksonville Harlem", you could spend a weekend here strolling the river, hop a trolley and listen to fantastic jazz and blues. Or the brothel district, people are facinated with that whole era, in NOLA it is part of the tours. Now that is an identity! Too bad Jacksonville lost most of this in the race to become an average American city.

Fabulous Saturday morning coffee read- thank you Stephen!

[Wacca Pilatka]

Every time I think I know Jacksonville history, I come here and discover new, uncharted territory.

Stephen - could you explain the term "Porkchop Gang"?  I understand it has something to do with the Burns administration but that's it.

When commenting about accomplished women in early 1900s Jacksonville, let's not forget Henrietta Dozier, an architectural pioneer and one of the few women to attend and graduate MIT at that time.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Our history actually has been embraced by the population.  The average Jacksonville person is way more openminded and tolerant in my personal experience than the louts who claim to lead them.  They are also generally more intelligent and progressive thinking.

...

I agree with you that we don't celebrate it, but we do embrace it.  So thoroughly that it doesn't even occur to the rank and file.

Very true in my experience...everyone I've met from Jacksonville, from different parts of town and walks of life, seemed to know and appreciate the city's history quite well...part of why it's paradoxical to me that the city as a whole doesn't seem to appreciate itself or recognize its uniqueness. 

I'm amazed at all the comments that Jacksonville is average and generic.  The volume of unique features this city has is staggering.  No one I've ever taken there knows much about it in advance, but once they get there, they recognize it, without fail.

[simms3]

Look at the remarkable careers of Frances Kinne, Eve Heaney, Mary Sue Griffin, Tillie Fowler, Corrine Brown, Betty Holzendorff, the women of RAP, San Marco and SPAR, Jesse Lynn Kerr, Ann Hyman, Blaire Woolverton, JuJu Taylor, Sylvia Simmons, Pat Hannan and so many many other women who trailblazed careers in Jacksonville long before women were 'allowed' to progress in the other great southern cities.

They may have all voted republican and talked up the merits of americanism vs communism, but take a more incisive look...why did women do so much better, so much sooner here than in other Southern cities?  Its because of the background of our history and culture.

You might not have noticed American Beach, just to the north of the city, but has it ever occurred to you that its strange that there would be an all black stretch of Florida Real Estate left along the Ocean on the East Coast, in between some of the most expensive stretches of american seaboard?

Regardless of the rhetoric and the misleadership of the Ed Ball Era, that heritage is part of this place and this culture.  You don't see all black owned beaches in Connecticut do ya?

How about the fact that our Arabic families have all been here for more than a hundred years?  Or that there is a huge upscale Jewish population that lives in this town whose names covered all the department stores and shops of the entire city?

Do you suppose that's because there has always been basic toleration in this area?  Despite flareups with rustics?

Perhaps you can't see our history and our culture all around you, but that's only because the rest of the country finally caught up to what Jacksonville already had.

And that isn't even mentioning the unstopped flow of the musical originality that emanates from this town.

I agree with you that we don't celebrate it, but we do embrace it.  So thoroughly that it doesn't even occur to the rank and file.

I think its time we rediscovered our full heritage and began understanding why Jacksonville is the way that it is.

Both whats wrong with it, and whats right.

Love this quote...goes along with what I was saying in that most of the residents/natives of Jacksonville have such long family histories (and awesome family histories at that) and people at bare minimum loosely know each other or know of each other.  Even so many people that move here, whether from Buffalo, Chicago, Atlanta, or any other city have long family histories there that may be tied here and can relate.  It's offputting to people like Tony and others who look at Jacksonville from the outside and see what is basically a close-knit gang of over a million people, and they don't fit in.  I think people are actually jealous.

Do we embrace our history?  Well many of the citizens do, but I highly doubt half of the city council does or city hall staffers.  Have we moved a long way past the Pork Chop Gang (small gang of a few people who somehow held a stranglehold on the rest of the city)?  I think mostly so.

Also for famous or well known women, I think in retrospect we are going to have to add Betsy Lovett just for her status as a major socialite and respectable donor for just about everything going on in this city.  I know her and she would have been front and center in the women's suffrage movement had she lived that long ago.  She almost single handedly runs the civilian part of this town (all of the charities and social fund raisers, and pulls A LOT of weight).

[simms3]

And might I add that for museums and libraries, I would put Jacksonville (metro, including St. Augie) at the top of the list in the whole SE.  MOSH is actually larger than almost any other museum in FL (around 80,000 SF) and larger than most in the SE.  Atlanta, the largest city, has Fernbank, but they are roughly comparable with one not way better than the other.

Our library system is ranked the highest in the SE by HAPLRS, the official library ranking system.  Well actually Palm Beach is a couple points higher on a scale of 1,000.  We dominate even the larger cities of Atlanta, Houston, Miami, Dallas, etc, and the only Main Library larger and potentially better than ours is the one in Dallas, which is ugly and brutalist compared to our jewel designed by my favorite architect, Robert A.M. Stern (and our main library is significantly larger than the others,even Atlanta's crappy main library).

For art museums, the Cummer ranks right up there with the best (aside from the High and museums in Dallas and Houston).  I would put the Cummer ahead of the Miami Art Museum in space and exhibits, and fame.  I would also say we have more of a burgeoning art community in Jacksonville than most cities our size or in the south with a few exceptions like in St. Petersburg, the Keys, and New Orleans.  I would not be surprised if we had more galleries than Atlanta.

We still have the Florida Theater, a significant theater, and many cities our size or in the south can't lay claim to having such a famous old theater (let alone a theater school/troupe based in the theater).

When you add St. Augustine, Fernandina Beach, Timucuan Perserve, Huguenot Park, and all of the other little museums and preserves, we have way more history and potential culture and potential identity than almost any other city our size and definitely any other city in the south.

Also, the Times Union Center is piss poor imho, but easily comparable if not better than most performing arts centers in cities our size or in the south.

Let's not even forget to mention that we have one of maybe just a few super significant old train stations here that is essentially a replica of the old Penn Station in New York (and thank God it survived the wrecking ball, but people were actually considering demolishing it!).

All of this is easily enough to make people jealous if they know about these assets we have.  And we have all of this even though our city is soooo cheap and has basically the lowest milleage rate in the state because we have people in our city that have always graciously given a very considerable chunk of their wealth to keep our city up.  For a city our size without any billionaires we have quite a bit (we can basically compete with Atlanta on many levels, and the city of Atlanta has at least 5 permanent billionaires living there).

Not that high schools are the end all be all (universities are and that's where we lack significantly, but UNF is making strides and people like Betsy Lovett and Ann Hix and so many others who are Ivey Leaguers are actually boosting and supporting UNF like no other), but we have Episcopal High School (there are a few, but literally ours is 2nd most well known and respected nationally behind the one in Alexandria) and Bolles.  I don't want to leave out the other schools (St. Johns is so small and the other schools don't really have the same rep), but these two high schools are more renowned than most colleges!  How many cities can lay claim to having entities such as these?

Finally, comparing to cities our size only, our fine dining, retail, and hotels easily outcompete what you would find in Louisville, Oklahoma City, Buffalo, Hartford, Milwaukee, Providence, SLC, and tons of other cities.  If we add just one or two nicer department stores and a couple more chain boutiques, we could just about compete with some of the much larger cities in the 2-4 million person range, that's how close we are.

We have local restaurants serving locally grown food in what Vicarious Cari described as the slow snail of approval movement, and it seems we are ahead of the game on this movement moreso than most cities.  Even Atlanta has to catch up (crappy farmers market in Atlanta and Atlanta is still stuck on importing chefs from New York and creating some overpriced restaurant with ok food but "really cool" decor).  Our flea markets and farmers markets and arts markets are some serious stuff that put us waaayyyy ahead of almost every other city in the country in this department.  Hopefully some transplants here can back me up on this (what I said in prior sentence), but even before the organic movement, many restaurants that served seafood mainly served up seafood locally caught that same day or the day or two before.  It is hard to get more local than that.  Our Publixes have Mayport Shrimp for Pete's sake.  I shop in Publix up here every day and I can't find anything local except for Vidalia Onions, which are actually grown closer to Jax than Atlanta!

I can go on, but if Jacksonville were to increase its advertising budget to at least St. Augustine or Ponte Vedra's budget numbers and we got some of our best institutions (did I mention our zoo is tops in the country?  It really is and its attendance should be over a million, not over 600,000) to do some package deals where people can choose difference packages offering a round at the TPC, a day or two in St. Augie (with its own packages), a half day or so at the Zoo, and throw in the Cummer, Mosh, meals at some of our better restaurants, a day in Fernandina with a visit to Fort CLinch (and if it's the right weekend a day pass to the Concours...one of the top 3 car auctions in the country), etc.  Get the picture?  The first time I visited Atlanta was back when I was in 8th grade and my parents knew I wanted to go to Tech, so we made an early visit.  We bought a package that allowed us to see a Braves Game, have a day at 6 Flags, a pass to Whitewater (which we passed on), a visit to the High, food at the Varsity, and a trip to Stone Mountain.  It was a package deal, well advertised, and easily purchased.  It was also worth it and the trip was fun.

[uptowngirl]

The old castle fortress looking building on Liberty at (Union?) with the cannons out front- Elvis did a concert there and apparently that place was PACKED. I love that building and wished it was used for something...anything....

[simms3]

^^^^The old Armory.  Constructed from 1915-1916.  You're talking about the brick building with the parapets right?

[uptowngirl]

That is the one! I love that building!

[Coolyfett]

I'd agree that Jacksonville lacks a national identity.  Its national claim to fame is the Jaguars.  Of course, some know about the St. John's, some know about the beaches, some know it as the entryway to Florida, some know about the former predominance of the insurance industry, some know the old paper mill smell problem (which Kornheiser perpetuated as though it still existed in his Super Bowl writings).  Quite a few people do not know where in Florida Jacksonville is located, or that it has beaches.

To say Jacksonville lacks the components for an identity, or lacks an identity to those who know it well, is not accurate.  I think everyone I've ever taken to Jacksonville or shared my love of the city with knows it as an exceptionally friendly place, as maintaining southern character (in the best sense) in a transient state, and for its distinctive architecture and neighborhoods.  They also know it as a city defined by the river.

All of that said, once again, I guarantee you the author was not making an enlightened and considered commentary on Jacksonville's identity or lack thereof with this piece.  He was taking an easy shot at a place that a slew of sportswriters are taking shots at without really knowing anything about it.  Because doing that is trendy and expected in the sports commentary community.

Many people still do not know where Jacksonville is located geographically. I say the St. John River is the crown jewel of Jax, just underpromoted and under used.....I still say if there was a Jetski rental and license place downtown during the summer it would be BAD ASS!! the St. Johns is where the heart is.....if its still dirty they need to treat it, if its clean they need to promote!

[ricker]

nexttime anyone needs to give directions to any out-of-towners_ if they're arriving by car, and end up at Forest St. from 10/95, present them and their eyes with the great view of the river before them as they see the skyline from that particular entrance to the riverside neighborhoods, downtown, Springfield.
Late to the list of sorely needed revisions to this landmark junction, but truly the most improved redesign I've been able to appreciate.
The truth behind blowing the pavement out to the full width of the easements is that the FDOT has known for years this would be sent back to the drawing board, and Arvida (St.Joe connection) held more land and developments (largest landholder in FL for decades) adjacent to McCoyCreek, TU, rail.
It's my favorite new approach to show off to others. On a sunny day.. .can hardly wait to see final plans for the dogpark between artist walk, PS#4, and that abandoned brick chunk of a derelict (school?) building across from Forest St Animal control..? Any leads?

[I-10east]

The old castle fortress looking building on Liberty at (Union?) with the cannons out front- Elvis did a concert there and apparently that place was PACKED. I love that building and wished it was used for something...anything....

That building is occupied, it's the Jax Dept of Recreation on Market St.

http://jacksonville.citysearch.com/profile/39951363/jacksonville_fl/jacksonville_parks_rec_dept.html

[uptowngirl]

Have they recently moved in? I was there a year ago and while there was one or two people in there the rest of the place was vacant. It is available for rent though (ir it was).