Trimming the Fat: How to reduce the cost of JTA's BRT

[finehoe]

I doubt any JTA employee would ride BRT if the system was built.  That should be their first indicator that the system is a bad idea.  A chef wouldn't sell a meal that he wouldn't eat, so why should a transit official create a system that they wouldn't be willing to use?

+1

[tufsu1]

here's a thought...and let me preface it by saying I'm not ncessarily supporting BRT....

It has been made abundantly clear to some of us and many leaders that there needs to be better transit service for the folks on the northside to get to the jobs on the southside.

The north-south BRT line (with 10-15 minute headways) serves this purpose....what other options are there?

Rail it runs through the northside and runs through the southside.

commuter rail will run on 30-60 minute headways on the southside...and the north part will take a good bit of work....will that cut it?

[JeffreyS]

Yes and you know it.
Do you think so?

[Charles Hunter]

Is the JTA plan to run the northside BRT buses on to the southside?  Or make people transfer downtown?

[thelakelander]

here's a thought...and let me preface it by saying I'm not ncessarily supporting BRT....

It has been made abundantly clear to some of us and many leaders that there needs to be better transit service for the folks on the northside to get to the jobs on the southside.

The north-south BRT line (with 10-15 minute headways) serves this purpose....what other options are there?

Rail it runs through the northside and runs through the southside.

commuter rail will run on 30-60 minute headways on the southside...and the north part will take a good bit of work....will that cut it?

You should be able to cut it with 30-60 minute headways and complementing cheap 10-15 minute bus service without all the bells and whistles.  What's proposed can be considered overkill, especially when it comes down to timing.

[tufsu1]

as I understand it, the BRT line will run from north to south, going through downtown on Broad and Jefferson

[tufsu1]

Yes and you know it.
Do you think so?

I do think 30-60 minutes could work...but average commuter rail fares of $3-$5 won't for those who are transit dependent

[JeffreyS]

Yes and you know it.
Do you think so?

I do think 30-60 minutes could work...but average commuter rail fares of $3-$5 won't for those who are transit dependent

Interesting point. I do want to serve the transit dependant but I also want to shape development and attract riders who are not transit dependant. Rail IMO would do a better job of that than BRT.

[thelakelander]

Commuter rail and reliable bus service without real-time information, TSP and queue jumps should suffice.  That will bring you some redevelopment potential from rail and connectivity between rail stops and destinations not within walking distance of them.

[Ocklawaha]

Hey JTA, how about TWO Southeast BRT routes?

Tell ya what,

We scrap the current plan for Philips, but NOT the Southeast Corridor.

We go with 15 minute headways on TWO routes.

We make the densely populated San Jose route drop to every 30 minutes after 9:30 pm, AND every 45 minutes from midnight to 5:00 am, hence back to 30 minutes until 6:00 am, and right back to 15 minutes again.

We tie both routes into coordinated connections at each major cross street station.

We make FREE TRANSFERS A SYSTEM WIDE POLICY.

We skip "REAL TIME INFORMATION" and exchange it for basics like excellent lighting, bike racks, shade, trash cans, landscaping, and cleanliness.

We brand both routes, with the eastern route matching up with similar JTB, Beach blvd, Arlington Expy/Atlantic lines all the way to the beaches.

We actually link up with the SKYWAY and the commuter rail on the FLORIDA EAST COAST plus any Southside AMTRAK station development.

We spend our extra dimes on interior amenities that make the bus better then driving, such as WI-FI, 110 volt outlets at every seat, bag racks, 4 tables with facing seats.

Then just make me the director of mass transit, and hey, you've got TRANSIT! 

OCKLAWAHA 

NORTH, SOUTH, EAST OR WEST, CHOOSE THE ONE THAT YOU LIKE BEST...

[tufsu1]

nice plans Ock....a couple of issues/questions

1. Some have "railed" against the Philips Hwy plan with statements like nobody lives or works there....which isn't quite true as there are plenty of jobs along the corridor and many more within 1/4 mile....but a route down San Jose doesn't really serve any employment centers....so it doesn't help with the north-south home-work issue.

2. We've been debating whether the east line should use the Hart Bridge/Expwy or the Mathews/Arlington Expwy.....there is virtually nothing along the Hart Expwy. and Arlington needs some serious help....so the thought would be to run BRT down State/Union, acrosss the Mathews Bridge, over to Regency, and then Southside....from there one line can continue down Southside while another line goes east on Beach.

btw...the routes I just outlined are what JTA is planning and consistent with the 2035 TPO LRTP

[thelakelander]

I wonder if its better to look at JTB as the long term east/west solution over Beach Blvd?  Transit ridership is at its highest when it directly connects riders to major destinations.  While Beach is the centralized corridor, the Southside's major employment, retail, medical and educational destinations all line JTB.  A part of me feels like JTB should be looked at as the major transit spine to the Beach with secondary north/south (Southside, St Johns Bluff, Kernan, Hodges, San Pablo, A1A) and east/west spines (Atlantic, Beach, Wonderwood) on the other roads.

[tufsu1]

I agree Lake and have gone back and forth myself many times.

The problem w/ JTB is you still need north/south connections to access the shopping and employment....and would need to go up A1A to reach the heart of Jax. Beach.

Beach Blvd, meanwhile, still has a large ROW (even with 6 lanes)...so dedicated lanes and/or signal queue jumps could be implemented.

[thelakelander]

You'll still need north/south connections on both.  There's also decent ROW on JTB.  However, on JTB, you'll directly connect with Southpoint, St. Lukes, Deerwood Park, SJTC, UNF, Allstate and Mayo Clinic.  On Beach, the only thing you directly hit is FCCJ and downtown Jax Beach.  Everything else is low density suburban sprawl at its worst.  How about a JTB/San Pablo/Beach Blvd route to tap into the heart of Jax Beach, while directly serving where people actually go on the Southside?

[tufsu1]

How about a JTB/San Pablo/Beach Blvd route to tap into the heart of Jax Beach, while directly serving where people actually go on the Southside?

now that might be ideal