ATTEND JTA's Plan To KILL RAIL, 4-7 MON.

[Doctor_K]

10 and 15 minute headways to go hang out for a theoretical feeder system that will run every hour or so.

This is why its so important to have people that ride the buses being part of the process.

I actually asked one of the JTA team which Corner of Phillips Highway she would choose to hang out on for an hour or so.

She replied that she had a list of the ones she wouldnt hang out on.

Ridiculous.

[uptowngirl]

Stephen you do not even have to ride the bus to see how dumb this plan is. I do not ride the bus and totally get it. This seems to be more about job security than transportation for the people who would use it IF it worked. Just another line that will be driving around with three people per bus.

[tufsu1]

I wonder if it would be a better idea to spend that money on sidewalks before buying more buses?

As part of a resurfacing project, FDOT will be adding bike lanes and sidewalks to the portion of Philips south of Baymeadows

[stjr]

What I am saying is that most of your conversation has to do with the politics and administration of transit and not the actual application of transit.  

Considering that "politics and administration" are apparently the real driving forces in designing and "applying" our transit, that's exactly where the conversation needs to be.

I have made my point numerous times that underestimating the politics and administration of transit in this town will continue to result in the poor decisions historically made in Jax.  You can jump JTA all you want for its innumerable "professional" shortcomings for which I more than share your outrage but until you deal with the political side of JTA, TPO, FDOT, and CoJ and the administration (in my book, particularly the straight-jacket funding and prioritization of projects) I don't see any real change coming.

That's why I proposed that the entire governance structure of JTA and the TPO charade needs to be dismantled and rebuilt.  The current arrangement aides and abets lack of oversight and accountability which begets the absence of rigorous debate, the failure to fully consider all alternatives, ignorance of best practices, failed professional execution, tolerance of complacency and incompetence, and, mostly, inadequate demand for quality transit solutions that deliver the results we are seeing in other communities and more than paying for here.

[JeffreyS]

Were any of the JTA board members able to pass up the early evening sitcom reruns and be botherd to attend the meeting?

[buckethead]

That puts her in a sympathetic light. I'm glad you guys were there nevertheless. Poor planning should never become too comfortable.

[CS Foltz]

Gentlemen..........there is something inherently wrong with pushing BRT, which is better than rail ....according to the JTA buffoons, when that region does not have the ridership or homeowners or renters to fully fill any BRT conveyance! I have passed bus's on that route that had a total of 4, if that many, riders on-board and wonder just why are we wasting our money on another half ass ed bus system! Either do it right or don't do it! Nice to see that JTA is adding another 10 covered shelters to that route...........now they just have to do something about the other 1800 that have a sign and that's it folks!

[tufsu1]

I have passed bus's on that route that had a total of 4, if that many, riders on-board and wonder just why are we wasting our money on another half ass ed bus system!

and I've passed multiple stops on Philips Hwy in the afternoon where 4+ people are waiting for the bus....so I'd bet there are a good bit more than 4 people on the buses.

[904Scars]

Stephen you do not even have to ride the bus to see how dumb this plan is. I do not ride the bus and totally get it. This seems to be more about job security than transportation for the people who would use it IF it worked. Just another line that will be driving around with three people per bus.

Agreed! I have personally never ridden Jacksonville's bus system. I have other cities and at no inconvenience, shoot even Cancun Mexico has a better setup with covered stops etc. I've heard the horror stories and have yet to have reason to try it.

[Doctor_K]

L7, L9, CTI, SS35 are the bus routes that go down phillips.

Not to split hairs, but Philips is a long stretch of road.  They all four don't cover the exact same geography, do they?  

Like L9 before it got rerouted went SJTC, Southpoint, eventually up the northern portion of Philips (if I remember correctly).  

To my knowledge, that particular line doesn't go near Avenues/South Philips, does it?

Moreover, is it a bad thing that at least part of the same stretch of road (granted, we're not talking like 20 miles' worth or anything) is covered by multiple lines?

--EDIT-- The only time I think I've seen more than two or three people riding or waiting on a bus was around the Regency Mall's drop-off area...

[CS Foltz]

Nooooo stephen............he was busy pedaling! tufsu does not drive at all right? Bet he has fun going over the Main Street Bridge! AM bus's on Philips are no where near full......or even half full! Rush hour maybe 4 to 6 maximum as to riders! If there are more at the stops on Philips...........that would be due to either running late or else they missed the one they were trying to get! BRT on Philips is a waste of money and resources.....not to mention, just how are the riders from South Point supposed to get to Philips to get on the BRT? Walk on JTB with its many sidewalks? Let me guess..........gonna build another $kyway to connect from South Point to the JTB gathering point for BRT? If they park at the Philips Highway side, yes there is parking, looking forward to JTA charging for parking there, but how do they get to South Point? Parking is on the west side of Philips and South Point is on the eastside of Philips! There appears to be a glaring problem with the planning on this project!

[tufsu1]

I have passed bus's on that route that had a total of 4, if that many, riders on-board and wonder just why are we wasting our money on another half ass ed bus system!

and I've passed multiple stops on Philips Hwy in the afternoon where 4+ people are waiting for the bus....so I'd bet there are a good bit more than 4 people on the buses.

so you saw them as you were driving by, did ya?

as a matter of fact, yes....but I've also ridden the L7 route a few times.

[Ocklawaha]

Nooooo stephen............he was busy pedaling! tufsu does not drive at all right? Let me guess..........gonna build another $kyway to connect from South Point to the JTB gathering point for BRT? If they park at the Philips Highway side, yes there is parking, looking forward to JTA charging for parking there, but how do they get to South Point? Parking is on the west side of Philips and South Point is on the east-side of Philips! There appears to be a glaring problem with the planning on this project!

While it's certainly not the dreaded BRT, the following are some shots of MICRORAIL, a concept originally for Fort Worth while today it has been proven and looking for markets. $5-8 Million a mile COMPLETE! Elevated, faster then the automobiles and can be built as a PRT (personal rapid transit) system...  

HEY TUFSU1? DESIGNED FOR BIKES ONBOARD TOO!

I put it on here just to validate your sarcasm (which I love BTW). As we continue to fill our satellite downtown with new offices, clinics, hospitals, corporate centers, retail and high density housing it would make all the sense in the world to start drawing the squiggly lines on the map that represent a circulatory network that would feed BRT, STREETCAR and COMMUTER RAIL.

There are certain links that have become so commonplace that today they should be mass transit no-brainers. Orange Park - Southpoint - Town Center, Downtown - Southpoint - Town Center - Mayo/UNF/Beaches, etc... Pathetically the JTA has managed to miss most of the opportunity's being exposed as we grow. While their determination to follow yesterdays idea's rather then listen to the citizenry or MJ'S professionals.  I only wish and pray that the current "brain cloud" would clear and like those magnificent little railways in the Andes, JTA would learn to Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.

OCKLAWAHA
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.

[spuwho]

While not a fan of BRT, the question remains, what comes first?

Do you set up the transit path and then have the city do appropriate zoning around it?

Or do you wait until there is a requisite density and then you build out your solution?

The problem here is that we have neither. You have two marginally connected entities acting as standalone organizations.

JTA builds the routes, but the city does nothing to promote transit based zoning around it.

The city approves new development, but takes no effort to make sure it can accommodate transit.

The only thing they seem to get along on with is roads. (again marginally) The one project where they had to work together (TBJP) has issues with financial management.

So while it is easy to blame JTA for all things, it's poor city leadership in failing to express or legislate transit based directives in its civic code.

[tufsu1]

Actually, I think the City has made real strides in allocating future land use and zoning consistent with JTA's transit vision....and the planning groups at both have been working closely together....things should only get better w/ Brad Thoburn (former City Planning Director) coming on-board at JTA.