JTA To Move Forward with Philips Highway BRT Plan

[tufsu1]

Doesn't a plan like this require a public hearing? Usually before Fed Funds can be accepted, they are required to hold at minimum 3 public hearings.

The article itself mentions the upcoming workshop...and there have ben multiple public meetings that have included the BRT plans, including those for the recent passage of the LRTP and the City's obility plan.

btw, studies like this require 2 public meetings...the first is a workshop and the second is a hearing.

[urbaknight]

I didn't even have to read the article to know that the plan sucks! I saw the map at the beginning and read some comments. That alone told me JTA is just shovelling more crap down the throats of the people that don't want it. I will not read the article, it will just make me sick!

[Overstreet]

Looks like a good way to make a right turn and get "t-boned" by a bus. This should also kill right turn on red at those intersections.

I wonder what the almost down town crowd from Emmerson will do at the Avenues Mall. Will the become shoppers or mall rats?

[tufsu1]

Looks like a good way to make a right turn and get "t-boned" by a bus. This should also kill right turn on red at those intersections.

why?

The plan doesn't call for extensive use of bus only lanes....and where they have a bus only lane on Blanding, right turning vehicles are permitted to use it.

as for the "emerson crowd"....they currently can get to the Avenues via the local route that goes down Philips now....how many of them have you seen there?

[thelakelander]

If this is being set up to be a spine for most Southside buses to hop on, you'll probably have a bus on it Philips every five minutes or so.  However, I would not worry about t-boning. I'd be more concerned about wasting transit money and economic redevelopment opportunity.  Quite frankly, traffic isn't heavy enough to widen the street for bus only lanes and it doesn't make sense to convert parking into bus lanes just because it's there. Get some shelters, modify you existing bus routes (like they do every year) to run this service and go to the feds to help get commuter rail off the ground.

[dlemore]

If this system involves overhead electric trolley it might work as a temporary bandaid and funding from the government might be forthcoming, if however, the JTA wants to stick with diesel or gas powered buses, I'll be the first to step in and ask the government to cancel all funding for this project to the JTA.  The idea of moving people at a faster rate of speed should include doing so without relying on foreign sources for fuel. Just because oil companies drill for oil close to our shores doesn't mean that the final product is for the American people only. JTA is sadly mistaken if it thinks it can continue to provide low cost bus service(including BRT)to the people of Jacksonville in the near future when those prices for fuel are subject to rise. The time to go with a low cost transportation system that can move mass amounts of people in the least amount of time....is now!!!  Further conjesting our roadways and arteries, polluting our air, and spending American money on foreign oil is not the answer.

[Ocklawaha]

If this system involves overhead electric trolley it might work as a temporary bandaid and funding from the government might be forthcoming, if however, the JTA wants to stick with diesel or gas powered buses, I'll be the first to step in and ask the government to cancel all funding for this project to the JTA.  The idea of moving people at a faster rate of speed should include doing so without relying on foreign sources for fuel. Just because oil companies drill for oil close to our shores doesn't mean that the final product is for the American people only. JTA is sadly mistaken if it thinks it can continue to provide low cost bus service(including BRT)to the people of Jacksonville in the near future when those prices for fuel are subject to rise. The time to go with a low cost transportation system that can move mass amounts of people in the least amount of time....is now!!!  Further conjesting our roadways and arteries, polluting our air, and spending American money on foreign oil is not the answer.

Electric Trolley Bus would do nothing for congesting our roadways, but would be far cheaper to operate and have the potential of ZERO pollution if the power plant is operated on solar, hydro or methane. The Rodman Dam probably provides enough flow that a low head power plant would power our whole system.

I WOULD NOT put trolley buses on Philips Highway, as it does not have the density to warrant the investment for a stand alone electric system. However downtown (think the current PCT Routes) and San Jose Blvd all the way into Julington Creek would make for an excellent passive restricted lane trolley bus starter route.

Meet the trains at Atlantic and the FEC RY in San Marco.


We could use this idea on our streetcar system, AND it could be applied to buses too.


Passive restricted lanes could also be used on Blanding, Kings Road, Atlantic etc...  How does it work? Easy! Just resurface the roadways where the buses are planned with a roughened surface such as brick, stone, pavers, or impressed concrete or asphalt, enough to really feel it in an automobile. Meanwhile since buses are generally 102" wide, a smooth busway drive surface can be created just the right size to fit the bus wheels. The same idea is used with Light Rail. In the end product nobody is restricted from the transit lane, in fact you can use it all you want if you don't mind shaking your teeth out as no car is wide enough to straddle the busway.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Ock............I concur! Phillips is not the place for rail, not yet at least, but downtown is a hole nother issue! BRT where proposed is just plain silly, not to mention a waste of $12 Million Dollars, waste of asphalt and line marking paint and parking spaces! Factor in the historical shelters being bandied about, at $24K apiece and supposed to be 24 of them going in along the BRT route, without increasing ridership any at all, this is doomed to failure! Not to mention .......we subsidize JTA now and will be doing the same thing with BRT which makes me ask......what is the total yearly cost to the taxpayers going to be? JTA has yet to publish last years figures and with JTA's propensity for cooking their books, I would take everything they say with a barrel of salt!

[JeffreyS]

Streetcars and commuter rail have worked for over a hundred years why reinvent the wheel.

[Ocklawaha]

RAIL

To make this clear, I said Philips was NOT the place for BRT, the FEC RY corridor alongside Philips IS INDEED THE PLACE FOR RAIL.


TROLLEY BUS
San Jose, like University, Atlantic, Merrill, Kings, Blanding even Lem Turner are all decent locations for BRT feeder routes and the heaviest of these, with the closest headways SHOULD BE CONVERTED TO TROLLEY BUS.


OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Ock...........I agree! The FEC Rail system is custom built for a Rail system and it extends south to St Augustine! Possibilities are endless, limited by funding and imagination! JTA and City Hall are useless when you go beyond concrete!

[stjr]

Understand that BRT is not bad...

LOL, Ock.  Every concept is bad when it is put through the incompetent hands of JTA.  

Noticed Ron Littlepage today picked up on the $4 million a year TRANSFERRED from the BUS system to SUBSIDIZE the $ky-high-way! (Even though taxpayers where promised this would never happen.)  He echoed my immediate thought about how many bus shelters that could have paid for and that we should again consider shutting down the Skyway for good.

Riderless Express rolls on; city cutbacks derailed

Submitted by Ron Littlepage on August 21, 2010 - 11:40pm Ron Littlepage's Blog

Spinning around the news dial … click.

Click.
All kinds of interesting facts pop up during the City Council’s Finance Committee budget hearings.
For example, last week the committee examined the Jacksonville Transportation Authority’s budget, including the funding for the Riderless Skyway Express.
Of the $5.3 million that will be spent on Skyway operations in the next fiscal year, only $400,000 will come from passenger fares.
Isn’t it time to put this mistake out of its misery?

Click.
A big chunk of the subsidy for the Skyway comes from $4 million transferred from the budget for bus operations.
That’s particularly galling for those who remember that when the life of the local option gasoline tax was extended, promises were made that none of the money would go to the Skyway.
That’s exactly where some of it is going.

Click.
Hmmm. I wonder how many bus stop shelters could be built with that $4 million?

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400564/ron-littlepage/2010-08-21/riderless-express-rolls-city-cutbacks-derailed

[thelakelander]

Only a fool would think that mass transit would make a profit or break even through fares.  Eliminate duplication by consolidating bus operations in DT.  That will reduce bus O&M, travel times through downtown and add riders to the skyway.

[stjr]

Only a fool would think that mass transit would make a profit or break even through fares.  Eliminate duplication by consolidating bus operations in DT.  That will reduce bus O&M, travel times through downtown and add riders to the skyway.

Lake, once again, I don't think most are asking for transit to not lose money.  The question, is how much for what we get in return.  Mass transit, like any activity, can't have access to unlimited resources.  Return on investment (in this case, the amount of the subsidy) is still the determining criteria.  What Littlepage is highlighting is, would you rather put $4 million in the Skyway or the Bus System.  There is only one $4 million allotment to work with.  (To get a second $4 million, see the Jaguars-Everbank deal ).

I do think everyone can agree that nothing JTA does is truly "efficient".

It will be an interesting "test" of the Skyway to see if BRT adds any riders of significance to its system.  If it doesn't, add another nail in the Skyway's coffin.

[thelakelander]

I actually agree with a good portion of your post.  However, I don't agree with the notion of skyway vs bus or bus vs commuter rail, streetcar or whatever mode selected to pick on for the hour.  I believe the entire system needs to be re-evaluated and modified.   I would bet the house and kids that a better and more reliable transit system (that includes buses and the skyway) could be run with the current amount of funds taken in.