Should Jax invest in a new convention center?

[thelakelander]

This still leaves the convention center empty for 40% of the time, and thats even with the national reputation of the Comic Con and the tourism industry that already exists in San Diego, and being twice the size of what we would have on the ground here.

Have you considered that San Diego's convention center is a critical element that has helped create the vibrant urban environment that exists in San Diego today?  Wouldn't it be nice if our investments in DT Jax ended up doing the same?

Anyway, here is the beautiful thing about investing in a new center in an ideal location, as long as you're willing to be creative:

1. You can take the best features of multiple facilities and incorporate into your environment.  For example, San Diego's connectivity driven location with Seattle's mixed-use public/private components for around the clock activity.

2. You can strengthen and validate existing public investments such as the Bay Street Town Center, Northbank Riverwalk, Hyatt Hotel and the Landing.  A new center in any other location would require that similar investments be made to complement the new center.  Since the market can't support them, you would have to subsidize new development that would only compete against existing subsidized development.

3. A relocated center allows the Jacksonville Terminal to go back to its original use (transportation center) while keeping the conventions and trade shows we currently have in downtown.


Seattle's Washington State Trade Center features retail and entertainment uses as street level with the exhibition hall above.  Imagine such uses being able to line the Northbank Riverfront and the south side of Bay Street?

What evidence would you propose exists that Jacksonville can bring a similar level of usage--much less higher--- than the City of San Diego.

San Diego serves as a successful example in that the center is a destination that brings additional business and visitors to downtown San Diego and the Gaslamp District.  By the same token, even if a relocated Jax center just kept the events it currently has, those guests are now exposed to the businesses in the central Northbank. Think preservation of existing economic base and strengthening connectivity first and foremost.

There could be a case for Jacksonville being able to hold a golfing, or a medical convention event of some size....

It's not "there could", there is a case to be made for Jacksonville being able to hold events.  It has held them in the past and it still holds many today.  However, you have to invest in your facilities to keep them competitive to keep the events you have and to possibly attract more.

The State's Fire-Rescue Convention & Exposition and the State Cheer & Dance Championships of Florida are two large events we let get away because of our outdated facilities.  They are also events that could be attracted back to Jacksonville if we had a facility that could serve their needs.

After 10 years of holding annual events at the Prime Osborn, the state's Fire-Rescue Convention & Exposition and The State Cheer & Dance Championships of Florida are moving to Daytona Beach, taking $3 million in economic impact.

The Florida Fire Chiefs' Association said it needed 100,000 more square feet to clear exhibits from the lobby areas, according to information provided by the CVB. It uses 117,300 square feet at the Prime Osborn.

Gainesville-based American Championships, which operates State Cheer & Dance, said it needed an additional 40,000 square feet to expand the event and have more warm-up space.

The Prime Osborn's size and the cost to transport event attendees to the nearest hotels were the primary reasons for lost business, said Shirley Smith, CVB's vice president of sales.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2007/04/23/story2.html

A better facility would also help us keep some of our existing growing conventions and trade shows, such as the Spring Home & Patio Show or the International Car & Truck Show.

The Car & Truck Show, produced by event marketer Paragon Group Inc. of Massachusetts, has been at the Prime Osborn for nine years. For the past two years vehicles were placed on the grass lot in front of the Prime Osborn, in the parking lot and in lobbies. The Prime Osborn's doorways were changed to bring more vehicles to the lower rooms, said Barbara Pudney, vice president and show producer at Paragon.

Pudney said changing the doorways helped accommodate the Car & Truck Show's recent growth but an expanded Prime Osborn would facilitate an even bigger and better event.

Reyes said if the city creates a new or expanded convention center, it could bring back lost business. "But you can't bring it back if you don't have something to offer."

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2007/04/23/story2.html

But the city is going to have another ten years of in the trenches arguing and fighting before it reaches the downtown business environment which will lend itself to the needs of an entertainment based Convention City.

It may take 10 years if you start planning today.  Keep ignoring the issue and it could take 30 like our battle in bringing reliable mass transit options back to town.  Btw, why must we be an "entertainment-based" city.  We should seek to be a diversified place capable of hosting multiple types, styles and themes of events.

In the meantime, not a penny of riverfront land should be used to subsidize an industry that cannot even draw the minor shows.

What's being subsidized?  The courthouse land is already owned.  If you follow the Metro Jacksonville plan that we've endorsed for years, the courthouse site would become one with mixed-use development.  Going back to the graphic we created, convention facility in center of block and private sector mixed uses along the riverfront and Bay Street.  

then certainly Jacksonville's Convention Center could be able to do the same.

This would depend on the site selected.  The Prime Osborn can not because it is inadequate.  However, a courthouse site with complementing uses would have a better chance because of the improved facility and surrounding environment.


The courthouse site is large enough to add a convention facility that could also include private mixed-use development along Bay Street and the riverwalk.  The income generated from the onsite mixed-use development could be used to reduce the cost of constructing a new modern convention facility.

I like this quote and think it sums up Jacksonville's situation.  It also pretty similar to the situation that Chew is currently going through.

“With a convention center the size of the one in Jacksonville, you can only compete for 8 percent of the convention business,” he said. “That’s like having a 40-seat restaurant â€" you’re not going to be able to hold many weddings.” â€"Anthony DeMatteo

[/b]
http://www.metjax.com/forums/showpost.php?p=61060&postcount=17

[Timkin]

@thelakelander --- i like the above illustration.  well done.

I will admit , Lake that I also like the rendering. I still side with Stephen that the Convention Center need not be on Riverfront.  It could be somewhere adjacent.  Heck by the time it is reality ,everything else that was old and nice, and part of our Historic Fabric downtown will probably be gone anyway.  I do not mean to sound so pessimist about this topic.. but the track record of demolitions speak for themselves, and mostly in their places are the slabs of the buildings to park cars on or asphalt parking lots. This has not produced infill to downtown.. It has helped downtown to become a ghost town.

[thelakelander]

^I know you'll probably hate to hear this but a convention center next to the Hyatt may have better odds of happening than the restoration of the Annie Lytle.  I say this because there is no money for either but at least the Mayor has publicly given his opinion on the convention center issue and the CVB will continue to push the concept.

Peyton also called for the community to work towards turning the existing Duval County Courthouse location into a future convention center.  The site, which will be vacated when the new courthouse opens, is on the St. Johns River and adjacent to the downtown Hyatt Hotel.

While no money currently exists to fund a new center, Peyton says the community should begin discussions on a project he says could positively impact downtown.

http://jacksonville.com/interact/blog/abel_harding/2010-01-20/jacksonville_mayor_john_peyton_endorses_convention_center_dayt

I also know that due to years of inaction, many get pessimistic about everything.  However, if things are to change for the better, we have to evolve our line of thinking.  Not only about the convention center but also parking, historic preservation, the transportation center and even commuter rail, which would link all of these things with the St. Augustine Train Station (the original topic of the thread).

[Timkin]

I have little doubt that you are right about that, Lakelander.  Im pretty sure Annie Lytle will never see a reuse. Perhaps the former owners knew that all along, and just kept it boarded up. I certainly never heard from you or any of the others offering to help me clean the place up, so I suspect you , along with many others have long known what I had always hoped would not be reality.   You know what ? SO BE IT !  I am getting used to the mentality of such actions .

And your Convention Center on the Riverfront probably will become a reality one day.  If so , I applaud you and all who want it to happen.

[Timkin]

^I know you'll probably hate to hear this but a convention center next to the Hyatt may have better odds of happening than the restoration of the Annie Lytle.  I say this because there is no money for either but at least the Mayor has publicly given his opinion on the convention center issue and the CVB will continue to push the concept.

Peyton also called for the community to work towards turning the existing Duval County Courthouse location into a future convention center.  The site, which will be vacated when the new courthouse opens, is on the St. Johns River and adjacent to the downtown Hyatt Hotel.

While no money currently exists to fund a new center, Peyton says the community should begin discussions on a project he says could positively impact downtown.

http://jacksonville.com/interact/blog/abel_harding/2010-01-20/jacksonville_mayor_john_peyton_endorses_convention_center_dayt

I also know that due to years of inaction, many get pessimistic about everything.  However, if things are to change for the better, we have to evolve our line of thinking.  Not only about the convention center but also parking, historic preservation, the transportation center and even commuter rail, which would link all of these things with the St. Augustine Train Station (the original topic of the thread).

  For the record, I still have a reply letter from the boy Mayor indicating his pledge , along with that of Councilman Corrigan to spare the School but I seriously doubt either one of them give a damn about Annie Lytle. 

[tufsu1]

I still side with Stephen that the Convention Center need not be on Riverfront.  It could be somewhere adjacent

it doesn't have to be....but it is a good use for the courthouse site, asuming there is some public space.

Tampa's convention center is a good example...the riverwalk goes right in front of the breezeway and the exhibit halls are placed toward the back...as Lake has noted, Jax. can improve upon this by having the exhibit hall on the seocnd floor and having retail space on the first floor along the Bay Street side.

[Timkin]

I suppose.  A new Convention Center would be way down on the list of priorities , to me. But it is also obvious that saving the Annie Lytle School isnt even on the list to many.  Pretty sad, but so be it.

[thelakelander]

^It could be #100 on the list of priorities but we should still plan for the ultimate long term use of our publicly owned property.  That way, priorities #1-#99 will all incrementally fall in line of reaching whatever long term vision this city has. 

[Timkin]

I am clear on your position Lake . And I ll respect your priorities and keep those in mind.  Guess if Annie is ever going to see a reuse , it will have to come from me seeking out an investor/developer . I know I need not count on you to help, and that is totally ok.   

[TheProfessor]

I talked to my grandma today and she indicated that the original passenger rail station in St. Augustine was near the Florida East Coast Railway Headquarters at King Street and Malaga Street.  Anyone remember this station?

[Timkin]

I do !

[Ocklawaha]

Oklahoma City, ugly industrial dusty prairie metropolis is similar to Jacksonville in many ways...  Nearly identical size, both in population and AREA. SPRAWL R US! River in the middle. Funky old money, old factory, old, old places either falling down, torn down or in use with a bandaid.  Yet OKC has every venue that we only dream about. Their ZOO - WITH AQUARIUM, museums, gardens, history exhibits, Bricktown historic district, Deep Deuce Jazz and Blues district, Science complex, softball hall of fame, museum of flight, naval museum, photography museum, etc..etc... + a complete theme park, "Frontier City".  

Downtown, and I mean RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN, is the Cox Convention Center... There are several hotels and it is all an easy one or two blocks from the Crystal Bridge botanical gardens, Bricktown, 3 major hotels connected with Skywalks, Amtrak, and the downtown skyscrapers... This is the schedule for the Cox for the month of July 2010:

July 2010 Events
Jun. 28th - Jul. 1st    FAA National Small Business Training Conference

FAA National Small Business Training Conference



Locations:  Great Halls A - E, Meeting Room 16 - 20



For more information CLICK HERE
Jul. 1st - Jul. 4th    OKC Summer Classic Dog Show
Time: 8:00 AM

OKC Summer Classic Dog Show
July 1-4, 2010
8:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. (Daily)

Tickets On Sale:  Thursday, June 24 - 10:00 a.m.

Ticket Prices:  $7 for Adults/$3 for children under 12
(Children under 3 will be admitted free of charge.)

Discounts:  Discount coupons available at Little Caesars Pizza locations

Ticket outlets:
- Order in advance at the Ford Center Box Office
  (Available at the Cox Convention Center day of show)
- All Ticketmaster outlets including Suncoast, FYE, and Homeland stores
   (OUTLET LOCATOR)
- TOLL FREE 1-800-745-3000
- ORDER ONLINE


Official Website:  http://www.okcsummerclassic.com

Jul. 2nd - Jul. 3rd    Family Reunion
Wilcots Family Reunion



Location:  Meeting Rooms 14 - 15



Time:  7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. (daily)



*Private Event
Jul. 9th - Jul. 12th    Kirby Champion Division VIP Club

Kirby Champion Division VIP Club



Location:  Great Halls A - E, Meeting Rooms  16 - 20
Jul. 10th    IEC Graduation
Time: 6:00 AM

IEC Graduation



Location:  Meeting Rooms 14 & 15



Time:  6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Jul. 10th    Wedding Reception
Time: 4:45 PM

Banks/Brewer Wedding



Location:  Great Halls D & E



Time:  4:45 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.



*Private Event
Jul. 10th    Wedding Reception
Time: 6:00 PM

Jeri Coats Wedding Reception



Location:  Meeting Room 16



Time:  6:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.



*Private Event
Jul. 10th    Oklahoma City Yard Dawgz vs. Iowa Barnstormers
Time: 7:05 PM

OKLAHOMA CITY YARD DAWGZ
vs. Iowa Barnstormers
Saturday, July 10 - 7:05 PM
www.okcyarddawgz.com

Block Party:
When - 2 hours before every home game!
Where - Reno between the Cox Convention Center & Ford Center
Who - Diezel Dawg & the Yard Dawgz Dancers
What - Live entertainment, games & activities, beer gardens & more!


Ticket outlets:
- Order in advance at the Ford Center Box Office
  (Available at the Cox Convention Center day of show)
- All Ticketmaster outlets including Suncoast, FYE, and Homeland stores
   (OUTLET LOCATOR)
- TOLL FREE 1-800-745-3000
- ORDER ONLINE

Groups of 10 or more:
Visit www.okcyarddawgz.com/groupTickets.aspx for information on savings and incentives.

Seating Map:

Jul. 12th - Jul. 15th    National LTAP Conference

National LTAP Conference



The Oklahoma Local Technical Assistance Program of LTAP Region 6 invites you to attend the National LTAP Association Annual Conference, July 12-15, 2010.



For more information:  CLICK HERE
Jul. 13th - Jul. 14th    Literacy First 10th Annual Leadership Institute
Literacy First 10th Annual Leadership Institute



“Whatever It Takes!” Leadership, Commitment and Change
Educators have the single most important and difficult job in society! Think about it. Educators have only 1080 hours per year to instruct a very diverse student population, a high percentage of which suffer from various handicapping conditions (economically disadvantaged, special education, English Language Learners). To accomplish this grueling task effective educators have learned that they must do “Whatever It Takes!” to cause ALL these students to learn. They know it takes “Leadership, Commitment and Change” to ensure ALL students learn to their full potential.



The focus of the 10th Annual Literacy First Leadership Institute is “Whatever It Takes! Leadership, Commitment, and Change”. Each of you will come away with specific strategies that can be applied immediately to motivate teachers and to accelerate achievement of all students. Most importantly, your batteries will be recharged and your commitment to instructional excellence will be energized.




For more information:  CLICK HERE
Jul. 18th - Jul. 21st    National Association of Free Will Baptists Convention

National Association of Free Will Baptists Convention



For more information:  CLICK HERE



For convention information:  CLICK HERE
Jul. 24th    Roller Derby: Red Dirt Rebellion Rollergirls
Time: 8:00 PM

Red Dirt Rebellion Rollergirls
vs. Gold Coast Derby Grrls


Saturday, July 24
Doors Open: 7:00 PM
Bout Starts: 8:00 PM



Ticket Prices:

$12 in advance/$14 day of show
Kids 10 and under $6



Ticket outlets:

- Order in advance at the neighboring Ford Center Box Office
(Available at the Cox Convention Center day of show) - All Ticketmaster outlets including participatingSuncoast and FYE, and Homeland stores (OUTLET LOCATOR)
- TOLL FREE 1-800-745-3000
- ORDER ONLINE




Seating Map:

Jul. 27th - Jul. 28th    Bar Exam

Exam Dates
July 27-28, 2010
http://okbbe.com
Jul. 30th    Oklahoma City Yard Dawgz vs. Tulsa Talons

Kind of makes you wonder what the hell we were thinking with the Prime, doesn't it??

OCKLAWAHA

[Timkin]

Seems like a pretty nice array of bookings for PO .   

[Fallen Buckeye]

Seems like a pretty nice array of bookings for PO .   

Compare the date ranges though between the 2 schedules though. One is for July and the other is through the rest of the year.

[CS Foltz]

Wow! Talk about filling a schedule up..............makes me wonder just what we, the taxpaying public, foot the bill to the tune of how much? Somehow methinks the public is getting the short end of the stick! Does anyone have any idea just much the taxpayers subsidize the so-called Convention Center? Do all of these extravaganzas pay for themselves? I would have to consider just what it takes to hold anything and just what the operating expenses would be............... is it worth the effort?