The Paramount End User of Downtown

[Metro Jacksonville]

The Paramount End User of Downtown



Downtown's Most Important Consumer and a strategy of misplaced priorities that must be overcome in order to make downtown viable again.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/752

[JeffreyS]

Where should we put the day center? I think this is a cause we should try to rally the MJ community to pressure our leaders to make some changes. 

Do we have examples of successful day centers from other cities? Should we pressure some of the service providers to move?

[adamh0903]

Doesnt every inner city have this issue? I know when I was in Denver in Oct for a convention, I stayed downtown at the Hilton thats near the convention center and as we drove into downtown we pasted what the cab driver called "vaigrant island" or something like that. It was were the homeless shelter, food bank and a few other centers for homeless were located, there must have been atleast 150 homeless in one area. But it was just outside of the core.

[Beloki]

This really is a problem. I have friends come over from Holland all the time and I always take them downtown for a walk but everytime we are asked:"can you spare a dollar" at least 4 or 5 times. It becomes annoying and embarrasing. We should come up with another place where we can accomodate these people.

[zoo]

Jacksonville doesn't want to hear this, and it appears even MetroJacksonville.com has felt the social/political pressure to sugar-coat the truth, but the 3 underlying causes of this city's downtown vagrancy problem are:

1. 5 decades of NIMBY-ism -- for 50 years everybody lived in the suburbs, so downtown became the best location for all social service facilities. This nimby-ism still exists, but as popularity, convenience and common sense of urban living grows, it is slowly reversing.

2. Jacksonville's geographic location on the major N/S route on the eastern seaboard (I-95), and at the end of a major E/W route (I-10). Has anyone else noticed that our transient population grows during Spring and Fall when they are traveling to and from the most climatically favorable places to camp?

3. The enormous amount of Christian guilt over the haves/havenots situation in Jacksonville. It is well-documented that Jacksonville is known as a homeless-friendly city nationwide, and Christian action alone has not created this problem. But mix Christian guilt with Jacksonville's geographic location and NIMBY-ism, and the goodness of providing for less-fortunate brethren is lost to providing a temporary dumping ground where transients will have the least impact on the daily lives of those doing the "giving".

Set up a suburban day camp (maybe more than one since Jacksonville is so vagrant-friendly), move at least 1/2 of the other social services out of 1st and 2nd ring communities, and there is a possibility the downtown situation could improve. But don't expect social service orgs and churches to jump on board with this solution -- it hits 'em too hard in their theology.

[adamh0903]

Jacksonville doesn't want to hear this, and it appears even MetroJacksonville.com has felt the social/political pressure to sugar-coat the truth, but the 3 underlying causes of this city's downtown vagrancy problem are:

1. 5 decades of NIMBY-ism -- for 50 years everybody lived in the suburbs, so downtown became the best location for all social service facilities. This nimby-ism still exists, but as popularity, convenience and common sense of urban living grows, it is slowly reversing.

2. Jacksonville's geographic location on the major N/S route on the eastern seaboard (I-95), and at the end of a major E/W route (I-10). Has anyone else noticed that our transient population grows during Spring and Fall when they are traveling to and from the most climatically favorable places to camp?

3. The enormous amount of Christian guilt over the haves/havenots situation in Jacksonville. It is well-documented that Jacksonville is known as a homeless-friendly city nationwide, and Christian action alone has not created this problem. But mix Christian guilt with Jacksonville's geographic location and NIMBY-ism, and the goodness of providing for less-fortunate brethren is lost to providing a temporary dumping ground where transients will have the least impact on the daily lives of those doing the "giving".

Set up a suburban day camp (maybe more than one since Jacksonville is so vagrant-friendly), move at least 1/2 of the other social services out of 1st and 2nd ring communities, and there is a possibility the downtown situation could improve. But don't expect social service orgs and churches to jump on board with this solution -- it hits 'em too hard in their theology.

Wow, we get knocked for being intolerant, then we get knocked for being to kind and caring, and what does "hit them to hard in their theology" mean? Its not my nature to take a discussion here, you will never find me forcing my beliefs on anyone, its not my job, but I am a christian, even a southern baptist minister, even though I havent "worked" for a church in a few years.

[JeffreyS]

3. The enormous amount of Christian guilt over the haves/havenots situation in Jacksonville. It is well-documented that Jacksonville is known as a homeless-friendly city nationwide, and Christian action alone has not created this problem. But mix Christian guilt with Jacksonville's geographic location and NIMBY-ism, and the goodness of providing for less-fortunate brethren is lost to providing a temporary dumping ground where transients will have the least impact on the daily lives of those doing the "giving".

Set up a suburban day camp (maybe more than one since Jacksonville is so vagrant-friendly), move at least 1/2 of the other social services out of 1st and 2nd ring communities, and there is a possibility the downtown situation could improve. But don't expect social service orgs and churches to jump on board with this solution -- it hits 'em too hard in their theology.

The churches will jump on board if there is a good place to center the day time life of the homeless. This will make it easier for Christian and other services to be done. As long as it is not a blight we are subjecting people to Christians will jump for joy at this.  They help the homeless downtown because that is where they are. This is a bad policy, for reasons already explained on this thread, but it is not some feeling that God's work can only be done in downtown.

If you need to take a cheap shot at Christians or others for helping people try to come up with something reasonable. Saying that Christians guilt insists that homeless people panhandle and poop on the street is mean spirited and dumb to the point of being pathetic. 

[zoo]

Adam, glad someone was brave, or crazy, enough to reply to my pot-stirring post.

As I said, I do not believe that Christianity alone is the cause of the problem. It is Christianity coupled with the other two factors.

We can't do anything about geographic location.

Nimby-ism can be changed. But not without looking hard at the Christianity issue. "I want to be a good Christian, but I don't want to have to look at those less fortunate in my surroundings regularly." Can Jacksonvillian's, other than those with social services in their communities already, be ok with changing this thinking? I doubt it. Let me know when Christians living in Marsh Landing, Ponte Vedra, Queen's Harbor, or even Mandarin, will open their community's doors to a social service org. They won't, but you can bet they'll keep giving, proudly declaring what great givers they are, and making sure the results don't hit too close to home.

I'm not taking a cheap shot at Christians (I am one), nor did I say that Christianity causes vagrants, or whomever, to defecate on downtown sidewalks.

If nimby-ism can't realistically be changed either, then the only objective solution may be to look hard at the giving. Jacksonville can take the award for being the most Christian city, and be proud of that. But then it may also have to take the award for most vagrant-friendly city, and be happy with that. If we were, this thread wouldn't exist in the first place. I don't fault anyone for being Christian and/or giving, but this city has a problem to solve that might require some city-wide self-reflection.

What I mean when I say it "hits them in their theology" is that to deal with the homeless problem, objectivity may have to replace (at the very least, be given equal weight as) local Christian practice.

[adamh0903]

Adam, glad someone was brave, or crazy, enough to reply to my pot-stirring post.

As I said, I do not believe that Christianity alone is the cause of the problem. It is Christianity coupled with the other two factors.

We can't do anything about geographic location.

Nimby-ism can be changed. But not without looking hard at the Christianity issue. "I want to be a good Christian, but I don't want to have to look at those less fortunate in my surroundings regularly." Can Jacksonvillian's, other than those with social services in their communities already, be ok with changing this thinking? I doubt it. Let me know when Christians living in Marsh Landing, Ponte Vedra, Queen's Harbor, or even Mandarin, will open their community's doors to a social service org. They won't, but you can bet they'll keep giving, proudly declaring what great givers they are, and making sure the results don't hit too close to home.

I'm not taking a cheap shot at Christians (I am one), nor did I say that Christianity causes vagrants, or whomever, to defecate on downtown sidewalks.

If nimby-ism can't realistically be changed either, then the only objective solution may be to look hard at the giving. Jacksonville can take the award for being the most Christian city, and be proud of that. But then it may also have to take the award for most vagrant-friendly city, and be happy with that. If we were, this thread wouldn't exist in the first place. I don't fault anyone for being Christian and/or giving, but this city has a problem to solve that might require some city-wide self-reflection.

What I mean when I say it "hits them in their theology" is that to deal with the homeless problem, objectivity may have to replace (at the very least, be given equal weight as) local Christian practice.

This brings up a conflict in my personal theology, Although I pay my tithe, sometimes I think Christians lose the fact that its not about how much MONEY you give, but also about how much TIME you are willing to give. The Acts Chapter 2 commision says GO into all the earth... There was a church I worked with that provided services to vaigrant and poor on Main street, It used to be North Main Street Baptist Church, and some of the greatest times was working with those kids and people who had nothing, actually hearing these peoples stories and talking to them. I have played the guitar for about 14 years and my band was the "house" band at this church for a couple of months. Sometimes its easy to give money, but a whole different ballgame to give your time.

[thelakelander]

I haven't read the article and I will do when I get some free time, but I agree with the statement that every city deals with this problem.  However, most municipalities don't have the brunt of their social services centers located in the middle of the exact same area they want residential, tourism and commercial development to take place in.  If you look at a map, Hemming Plaza is really ground zero, which is a bad thing if you want to attract suburbanites, yuppies and people with small children in the exact same space.

Would a day center help?  Sure, to some degree.  However, if we really want to overcome this situation, we need to find a way to relocate/redistribute these services, thus shifting the epicenter.  I still think that the Dennis Street area, which is filled with obsolete abandoned brick warehousing is a centralized location where many of these services could be provided without having a negative effect on their surroundings.

[heights unknown]

Hi all;

Well, everyone else put their two cents in, so I'll add my dollar to it.

Yes, homelessness is a problem in not only Jacksonville, but also numerous other inner cities, cities, and towns around the nation and of course the world.  As an advocate for the homeless, and also the Executive Director of an Agency that addresses homelessness and helps those that are needy, disadvantaged and underprivileged, I will say that it's very easy for those who have never been homeless to talk about it, or even make suggestions while in their comfortable cozy havens, on how to alleviate or eradicate homelessness.  Yes, homelessness is a problem, but the problem lies much deeper than just being homeless.

One of you, in your post, pointed towards the mentally ill, etc.  Well being mentally ill is a problem, and if not addressed or that person admitted to the appropriate medical facility or mental hospital to ADDRESS THAT ISSUE AND NEED, then they will be out on the street (homeless), and will defacate, urinate, and utter blasphemies (many of whom do this unknowingly) to the populace, and yes, be a nuisance.

You're probably saying, where is he going with this?  The United States, that is, the Cities, Towns, Villages, etc. within this great nation spend and waste billions on numerous items and issues that are worthless, unfounded, or unneeded.  Let's face it, the issue of homelessness is a great and huge problem, and will continue to be unless we address "the need" that will "fix the problem."  Many of you will say, "well that's not my problem and they probably want to live that way and set themselves up to be where they are;" in the majority of the cases this is as far from the truth as Alpha Centauri is from Planet Earth.  As an advocate for the homeless, and one who is in contact with them daily, I am here to tell you that the majority of them want out, didn't see it coming until it hit them, and yearn big time to be back in the "normal mainstream of society." 

The problem is no one wants to help them, or let me put this another way; no one wants to help them in the right and correct manner.  It's easy to give out plates of food, clothing, or temporary shelter, but if you do this daily you're just feeding and even encouraging their homelessness.  So you ask, what is the solution?  Well a few of you hit the nail on the head; there are underlying root problems that cause homelessness such as drug use and abuse, alcohol use and abuse, prostitution, dead beat dads, disabilities (mostly Vets), sexual deviants and offenders, mental illnesses, chronic or even acute financial problems, and there are some people who become homeless simply because they didn't know what to do in a certain situation and didn't know where to turn.  The solution is to address the problems, head on and with aggression, that cause homelessness.  What I mean by address is initiate and create programs that are designed and will in fact eliminate and eradicate all of the aforementioned problems and other problems not listed that cause homelessness.

Many social service agencies are sorely lacking in providing such programs within their program curriculum in order to  adddress and eliminate these problems.  The goal of each social service agency (and this is the goal for us even though we're small and of course strapped for cash), should be to address and eliminate these problems that cause homelessness and return these valuable individuals back into the normal mainstream of society; and I may be wrong, maybe the majority of the agencies do have such stated goals, but funds prevent them from moving forward with such a program or programs.

I hate to say it and this will hurt but here goes; again it's easy for us who live in our nice homes and who have good jobs and transportation, to point at homelessness and say this or that.  None of you in this forum or in the world will never fully understand homelessness unless you've been there, or will never be sympathetic in the right or respectful way and frame of mind until you have been homeless; and I hope to God none of you will ever be.  I had the privilege of tasting of the rotten fruit of homelesness; no I am not a druggie or alcoholic and never have been; but medical issues and other issues beyond my control careened me into the homeless arena; and there I was.  I learned from all of that and took it as a calling from God to help those in need.  The way that most of you can help is by really analyzing this email and sending it to City Government Officials, Social Service Agencies in your area or even the State, and also do your part by donating, whenever you can, to the appropriate social service agency or agencies in your area that you feel have such a program or programs that are truly addressing the root problem causes of homelessness, and not just giving out meals, temporary shelter and food.

I go by the name of "HEIGHTS UNKNOWN" in the forum, but I am Garry B. Coston, a 20 year Naval Veteran (spent over half in Jacksonville and was born in Jacksonville), was homeless for a short while in Fort Lauderdale after I left the Navy, and am now the Executive Director and Chairman of FRESH START Social Service Agency, Inc., serving Sarasota and Manatee Counties Florida, and the State of Florida, and have served many around the nation in isolated cases.  Feel free to call me or email me at any time by acquiring my contact info at our website:  (http://www.freshstartreferral.com).

Thanks everyone, and I hope this email opened your eyes a little more regarding the homeless problem and/or issue.

God bless!  HEIGHTS UNKNOWN (Garry B. Coston)

[Beloki]

Yes, we have to count our blessings!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIUCTbi_XZs&feature=related

Having said this I want to go beyond the question why and religious issues.

Having many homeless people in downtown is a big problem. What are the humane and effective possibilities te resolve this problem?

[heights unknown]

Hi Beloki;

Please read my post just previous to yours; these are the answers to homelessness!

Now if you want me to be more definitive I can be, but that would be giving out part of of our program operational procedures and curriculum which is classified; but we (FRESH START) have a definitive plan; but I generally iterated the mission and goal(s) that each Agency, or even the City Government should have parallell with working with their local social service agencies, in eliminating the problems that cause homelessness.

Thanks.  Garry - http://www.freshstartreferral.com

[thelakelander]

Hi Beloki;

Please read my post just previous to yours; these are the answers to homelessness!

Now if you want me to be more definitive I can be, but that would be giving out part of of our program operational procedures and curriculum which is classified; but we (FRESH START) have a definitive plan; but I generally iterated the mission and goal(s) that each Agency, or even the City Government should have parallell with working with their local social service agencies, in eliminating the problems that cause homelessness.

Thanks.  Garry - http://www.freshstartreferral.com

I think its a two way street.  The city has goals as well and both entities need to work together to carry out those goals.  This means we also have to take into account the desire to bring vibrancy back to the core, centered around Hemming Plaza.  Is there a way to deal with these issues, without alienating either party's vision?

[Driven1]

i have a friend who says, "How many consecutive bad decisions do you have to make to end up homeless here in America?"

and think about it - these foreigners who come over here with NOTHING - many times only the clothes on their back - and they don't end up homeless...in fact, they go on to start their own businesses and lead successful lives in our land of opportunity.

have said that, i do think there is room for compassion even still.  having said THAT though, i think many homeless subconciously choose the lifestyle because it affords them the luxury of not having to get a job.  i have personal experience with individuals of this mentality.