Downtown Frankenstein: Revisiting the 1971 MasterPlan

[Wacca Pilatka]

Does anyone know a timeline of when all the department stores closed and when the skyway was built?? 

Furchgott's and Levy's closed before Skyway construction began.  I think Furchgott's was 1984 and Levy's, 1985.  Cohen's didn't close until 1987, shortly after the Landing opened.  Not sure about Penney's and Ivey's.  They still appear on a 1988 downtown Jacksonville map I have, but that map has a slew of errors in it and I was sure they closed well before that, and before Cohen's.  Sears closed around 1981 per an article I saw a long time ago in the T-U about the discovery of a mural or tapestry that was on the wall in there.  The pictures at the front of "Old Hickory's Town," which must from 1982 because the Southern Bell building is nearing completion, still show the Sears signage on the building, and then the building's demolition is evident in a subsequent picture.  No idea about Rosenblum's or Purcell's.  Woolworth's hung on a long time, didn't it?  As in, until the final breaths of the Woolworth's chain in the 90s?

[Captain Zissou]

So the skyway had nothing to do with the closing of the retail, as stjr claims??

[duvaldude08]

So the skyway had nothing to do with the closing of the retail, as stjr claims??

I dont think thats what stjr meant. The contruction of everything just drugg on too long (the skyway and the "master plan") and in the meantime, retial died, quick. This is still the trend in Jacksonville. We drag our feet on everything, then miss the boat time and time again. And we must almost remember that the opening of regency also killed downtown retail. JcPenney, Sears and May-Choen all ended up Regency.

[finehoe]

So would this be a fair statement?:

The only thing accomplished from this plan was the destruction of Hemming Park, which far from "saving" retail downtown in fact sped up its demise.

[stjr]

So would this be a fair statement?:

The only thing accomplished from this plan was the destruction of Hemming Park, which far from "saving" retail downtown in fact sped up its demise.

I think so.  I loved the "old" Hemming.  It was historic, charming, and an indigenous vestige of the old South's easy going ways.  Today's Hemming is "institutional" and really has little charm to it.  It seems to me this was a Jake Godbold project.  Whatever, you are right that it backfired big time.  I think if one dug up the T-U articles at the time, you might find that the retailers gave plenty of warning that this could ruin their businesses.  But, no one listened.  Has anything changed?

Re: My Skyway comment, the ultimate point was that retail (or much of anything else) has not been attracted to it after 20 years in spite of the promises made that it would have the opposite effect.  Seems to me some of the deadest stretches of activity in Downtown run under its tracks and I blame that on its architecture's impact on street level.  It's construction, like Hemming Park, assured the demise of what little was left on Hogan.

By the way, other buildings that featured a second level plaza that may have been intended to fit the featured plan are the Bennett Federal Building and the old Duval Federal Building, remodeled and now incorporated into the Bank of America block.  The Bellsouth/ATT building was also built during the period when this plan may have still carried water and I believe that it also was engineered to work around it as I recall (it's been awhile since I was in it) that its main floor might be it's second floor.

[thelakelander]

No form of mass transit will attract development if the city actively works against it. Skyway, streetcar, commuter rail, LRT, won't matter. We should make sure we don't repeat the same mistakes with future projects.

[finehoe]

By the way, other buildings that featured a second level plaza that may have been intended to fit the featured plan are the Bennett Federal Building and the old Duval Federal Building, remodeled and now incorporated into the Bank of America block.  The Bellsouth/ATT building was also built during the period when this plan may have still carried water and I believe that it also was engineered to work around it as I recall (it's been awhile since I was in it) that its main floor might be it's second floor.

This is correct.  When the Duval Federal Building first opened, their ads bragged that they were "the first" to conform with the plan.

[thelakelander]

Where exactly in the BOA block is the old Duval Federal Building located?

[MaxOmus]

"steadily declining downtown retail sector down faster than a prom queen at the after party."

heh, where'd that come from...

[finehoe]

Where exactly in the BOA block is the old Duval Federal Building located?

The corner of Bay & Hogan.  You'll notice that the second or third story protrudes over the sidewalk.  This used to be the elevated skywalk part of the building and was open-air.  When the building was redone, they enclosed it and expanded the office space outward.

[ricker]

well how are we doing with getting the crusty cooks holding tattered purse strings to respond to our collective nudge toward a cohesive blend of the systems available to get us moving about this great expanse in a memorable yet safe and at times entertaining manner?

[HisBuffPVB]

Hemming Park was rehabbed in 1977 using CETA funds, it was not until about five years later that the concept of Hemming Plaza around the park was initiated. The old park had been in decline for some years, terrible public restrooms on the east side, below street level, far too many plants that were not well maintained in the park, it had become an eyesore and included in the park was a small tourism center, hardly ever used. Central to the park was the Confederate monument, there have been at least three efforts to move that, all have failed due to lack of public support. At the time the park was rehabbed, there was an effort to save downtown shopping and many people would not come downtown due to the homeless and others who seemed to be attracted to the park,(sound familiar?) The park on the east side was also the central loading and unloading zone of all the city busses who came downtown.

[HisBuffPVB]

The term "homeless" goes back to early 70's probably became more prevalent in the recession of 74, which genterated the CETA jobs program as well as the CETA public works programs. It became far more noticeable after they turned so many out of the state mental institutions beginning about 79 and put them, primarily in Springfield in halfway houses, these folks, zonked on thorazine and other drugs were released to wander around town including Hemming Park. First real notice in this country of homeless probably goes back to the depression and the number of men some living in Hobo camps riding the rails and searching for work. Did not seem to be a center for gay solicitation, in those days, that was more in Riverside park and Friendship park. Maybe it was in Hemming. By 78, Downtown development or redevelopment had not been on the radar screen long, only four years after Amelia Island Conference.

[HisBuffPVB]

I don't remember an independent taxing district downtown, in fact, Lex Hester was opposed to independent districts, and this was a number of years before Tax Increment Financing districts. I remember the 71 plan but as you have probably discovered, the city did hot have a planning department until 80, before that it was a planning commission with little power other than to advise and recommend. We did not have a Downtown Development Authority Director before Don Ingram and I think he came in 71 from Atlanta. Lex believed as he wrote, in a very strong Mayor with very strong Departments led by professionals, something that has not continued and has really declined in the past few years.

[HisBuffPVB]

In 1971, the city did not have a Planning Department, there was a planning commission located in the Courthouse with advisory capacity only.