SkyWay should extend to the sports district

[stjr]

Meanwhile, to play this threads game, sweep out those cobwebs, use maybe another $200 Million and tell us what we'd get for that... You are now the president of the SKYWAY RAILROAD... Make it sing.

Ock, are you saying I have $200 million and I can ONLY spend it on the Skyway?  Am I suppose to spend it on the Skyway just for the fun of it?  That, to me, is a false premise to work from.  If I have $200 million, I am going to build a streetcar system over investing it in the Skyway.  Do you know anyone who would do the reverse?  You?

[Timkin]

Ock....

Given the present conditions today, what do you think are the chances of these extensions becoming reality?  I have seen the signs showing the future development of "Brooklyn Park" ..just an educated guess.... How far into the future are we talking?  Will our illustrious city Government allow Annie to stand and wait for this to come to pass?    Wish I knew someone with more money than they need to invest in this place and at least put a roof on it and brick up , for now , the lower level openings ..

[Timkin]

You're not serious , Stephen.

[thelakelander]

Ock....

Given the present conditions today, what do you think are the chances of these extensions becoming reality?  I have seen the signs showing the future development of "Brooklyn Park" ..just an educated guess.... How far into the future are we talking?  Will our illustrious city Government allow Annie to stand and wait for this to come to pass?    Wish I knew someone with more money than they need to invest in this place and at least put a roof on it and brick up , for now , the lower level openings ..

I'm not Ock, but I'll take a guess.

1. No extension of the skyway will be happening anytime soon.  There is no money or desire.

2. Brooklyn Park died.  Its not going to be built.  Miles has abandoned this proposal.

3. If we get transit money for expansion, it will be used on projects like BRT, commuter rail and streetcars instead of the skyway.

However, what we can do now is find a way to improve and better utilize what we already have in place.

[Ocklawaha]

Exactly Lake, Stephen and Timkin...  The Skyway may or may not get expanded or rebuilt. It might or might not become part of a fully integrated transit system. OR, we might just tear it down, divide the spoils and send every citizen in the County the equivalent of two crumpled aluminmum cans in recycling cash.

To attempt to keep this on track in the face of such negative Nel's, the assignment is, YOU are in charge of a new department of Asset Realization. You are informed that for the Skyway project you will have $200 Million to work with. Come up with solutions that make it viable, and expand it to usefulness. Consider too that if you try and decide city policy over your assigned boundires I hear they are looking for a dog catcher in DULUTH.


OCKLAWAHA

[hillary supporter]

However, what we can do now is find a way to improve and better utilize what we already have in place

Move to a more aggressive downtown development plan, keyed around residential presence. Increased use of Skyway will follow. Residential presence would have to be heavily encouraged, incentive, perhaps keyed towards low income. Although another option could be geared towards artists. This is done in NYC, there "artists" are categorized through tax returns, ect. to establish an official status eligible for financial exclusions. And specific housing (Artlofts, music studio space, ect). From this, expansion will be much easier to attain.  But my suggestion is a real mouthful for local leaders to consider.

[Timkin]

Sorry to hear the Brooklyn Park development died as well..  We could have saved money wrecking everything in Brooklyn to make way for this place that will never happen now.

200 Million...  extend the Skyway to Annie Lytle and refurbish the building .. but I guess I have already said this

[Ocklawaha]

You might have suggested it Timkin, but let's play the game and give us a fairly detailed proposal, I figure even with Annie, your still going to need to spend another $100 Million someplace. So where?  A six car train is going to run somewhere in the 3-6 Million cost minus trade-in values. So tell us, where are the tracks to go? Intermediate stops? What's at the terminal? Annie?


OCKLAWAHA

[Timkin]

I am not an expert by any means on costs of renovations or rail / transit.   If you are asking a guestimate of refurbing Annie?  My guess is : Acquisition of the Land and Building...somewhere between 1 and 2 million...maybe not in today's economy.  Overhaul of the building to make it a transit station/mixed use development: 10-12 million  Cost to extend the skyway from where it ends currently at Acosta Bridge to there?? YOU would come closer to being the expert about that Ock.

As to where else it would immediately extend to:  1: San Marco 2: The Stadium . again I have absolutely ZERO idea what the costs of this would be.  I did not think it would be 200 million to put it to Brooklyn and develop Annie Lytle.   But extending it to these three destinations , which seem resonable as all of these are in or near vibrant points.  IF there would be enough money , next I would extend it to Springfield... I presume it was built , with intent of eventually expanding.

At this point ( and I know I am a broken-record ) I apologize Stephen !.... I would love to see PS # 4 be something more than a canvas for grafittists, and a Pigeon rest , the one point M-train made that I did have to laugh in agreement with.    I do not think PS4 would make a good place for apartments , given its proximity to the interstate, so short of a medical complex or a Transit hub/mixed use development, I do not personally think the building has another viable use...or we would be using it.  

Since the Skyway DOES exist and is in reasonable condition.... lets not scrap and dismantle it...only to pay millions to rebuild the thing when we probably WILL need it in place.

This is the most intelligent answer I can give you.  My first destination preference would be Brooklyn because I do think it would be a useful tool ...coupled with the refurbishment of the School to jump-start Brooklyn Development...it is a couple of blocks from 5 points/Riverside.   It would save what is to me (and I would hope to many), one of the most significant  vacant buildings (few of which remain) in Brooklyn.

[Timkin]

At the terminal (Annie)  I would utilize the Lower level of the School for multi-use ..cafe , coffee house,  utilize the Auditorium area as a combination of things : Dinner Theatre, Comedy Club, Perhaps show movies some nights/days and alternate, a gym, artist loft, geez the possiblities are endless.  One of the classrooms somewhere in the School and Probably the Administrative Offices would be restored to their origonal look as much as possible as a tribute/museum effect.  This may sound silly ,but since Annie actually had a Victrola in the Hallway of the entrance at one time, I think that is a must as well.   If there were adequate space in the back yard , for the younger people who love skateboarding , I would put a skateboard park in.    Laugh at me if you will.  Those are the ideas I have and this is what I think the highest and best use for the School is .   It needs to be a destination as well as a transit station that will attract all ages.

[Timkin]

Doing all of what I am speaking of doing probably would run in excess of 200 million

[Ocklawaha]

However, what we can do now is find a way to improve and better utilize what we already have in place

Move to a more aggressive downtown development plan, keyed around residential presence. Increased use of Skyway will follow. Residential presence would have to be heavily encouraged, incentive, perhaps keyed towards low income. Although another option could be geared towards artists. This is done in NYC, there "artists" are categorized through tax returns, ect. to establish an official status eligible for financial exclusions. And specific housing (Artlofts, music studio space, ect). From this, expansion will be much easier to attain.  But my suggestion is a real mouthful for local leaders to consider.

Certainly expanded residential and retail or entertainment would enhance the Skyway's viability but keep in mind, "Development doesn't create mass transit, rather mass transit creates development..."  Virtually all of America's world leading streetcar and interurban railroads built to some empty tract, then worked with developers to fill in the dots. Ortega, Fairfax, Avondale, 5-Points, Murray Hill, Lackawanna, West Jacksonville were all "Trolley Neighborhoods," and "Trolley developments". The locations of TOD or highest transit impact can be seen today as the beautiful old businesses scattered throughout those districts, for example:

Stockton Street between Dellwood and College
Fairfax business district
Old Ortega business district

Where ever the cars slowed down, cornered or stoped to recieve or discharge passengers, apartments and businesses sprang up. Why? Because there is a direct connection to transportation speed = retail, food, business impact, the slower the road, bus, streetcar, train, then the higher the business volume.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

"Development doesn't create mass transit, rather mass transit creates development..."  Virtually all of America's world leading streetcar and interurban railroads built to some empty tract, then worked with developers to fill in the dots.

It's important to note that this still occurs today. Tampa's Channel District, Miami's Dadeland, Charlotte's South End, DC's Columbia Heights and Portland's Pearl District are all examples of districts that have densified or undergone a rebirth after fixed rail investments pierced their borders.

[Timkin]

SO .... to that , I say DEVELOP!  do not destroy what we already have...enhance , add streetcars or whatever it takes to create development.  

I choose Brooklyn FIRST because of the areas mentioned here, Brooklyn is the most void and of the most need, for development, setting aside totally the other obvious reason I choose Brooklyn.  am I correct, based on the assumption that mass transit creates development?  or am I as usual , way off ?

[CS Foltz]

Tim........I think I have to agree! I am not happy about continually subsidizing the $kyway, but I have been struck with an idea................why pay anything at all to ride? My idea would be to have parking at a set location, ride the $kyway to downtown location and return! It is already costing us for the Skyway,so take it one step further, provide parking at a set location.....at no cost, limit parking to 12 hours and go from there! Or continue to charge for the Skyway and put fares into a pot to expand! If it is not expanded.......it will wither and die, plain and simple! Do something............like we used to say in the guard "shit or get off the pot!" Do something even if its wrong, but do something!