Questions about bigotry.

[Tripoli1711]

Don't tell me what I do and don't get about my own religion, buddy.  I don't personally consider Biblical teachings to be "tripe".  Now I know you weren't personally addressing me in your comment but the comment is personally insulting to me.

Nothing in the Bible stands as a basis for the mistreatment or bigoted treatment of anyone.  Saying that the Bible was a legitimate basis for the mistreatment of Blacks, Jews, etc. is simply wrong. 

The Bible does not condone homosexuals entering into the sacrament of marriage.  I am sorry, it simply doesn't.  As I said earlier, I haven't any issue with homosexuals being able to enter civil unions and receive the same benefits, etc.

But don't pull out this "you people" business and act like a very clear tenet of the Christian faith regarding marriage can be brushed aside as only followed by those not dealing with a full deck.

[ChriswUfGator]

Don't tell me what I do and don't get about my own religion, buddy.

STFU, seriously...

You're here telling others what they can and can't do with their own marriage, aren't you? Zero credibility.

Might want to take your own advice.

[Tripoli1711]

And, to be clear, I do not believe the Bible stands for mistrust, mistreatment or bigoted sentiments against homosexuals either.  I do believe the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, but to answer your question, Christ died on the cross to save us from our sins.  Everyone is sinful and homosexuals are no more sinful than I am as a heterosexual, but the Bible does call it a sin.  Thankfully everyone, gay or straight, has the ability to be reconciled to God through Jesus and we are all brothers and sisters in him.  We should treat each other as such, gay or straight.

[Tripoli1711]

No, Chris, I won't.  And why don't you guys try to stop and have one iota of objective thought about things instead of taking every single thing someone says as a personal assault against your belief system.

I haven't told you shit what you can do with your own "marriage".  I have said that I believe the Bible says you shouldn't be married in the Church.  I'm not the Pope and I'm not the pastor of a Church.  If you can find one that will perform homosexual marriages, fine, but I believe that to be contrary to the Bible.  I have stated repeatedly that I haven't any issue at all with homosexuals as individuals or homosexuals being able to enter what you would call "marriage".  I have only said that I believe the Bible does not stand for that union taking place in the eyes of the Church.

What I have said is perfectly logical, reasonable and entirely within line with Christian teachings.  You and Stephen have decided to tell me to STFU.  Why?  Because you think it's an attack against you or your beliefs and you get to play the victim card with one hand while pulling out the "outrage" card to play with the other.  And its total BS.  I don't know what kind of crap not now and the others have said in the past.  Maybe they have earned your mistrust about their motives.  

I have not.  And I reiterate, do not tell me what I do or don't understand about my religion.

[ChriswUfGator]

And, to be clear, I do not believe the Bible stands for mistrust, mistreatment or bigoted sentiments against homosexuals either.  I do believe the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, but to answer your question, Christ died on the cross to save us from our sins.  Everyone is sinful and homosexuals are no more sinful than I am as a heterosexual, but the Bible does call it a sin.  Thankfully everyone, gay or straight, has the ability to be reconciled to God through Jesus and we are all brothers and sisters in him.  We should treat each other as such, gay or straight.

Yeah, screw the sunday school version and look at the actual facts as presented. Christ died on the cross because he challenged the religious beliefs of the Romans, which led to his execution for political convenience.

How the F can you people read that, and then find justification in that tale for turning around and treating others in the same fashion? If that's what you've taken away from it, you've missed the entire point.

[Tripoli1711]

Your point, Stephen?  Christ did not repeal the old laws but he did change the game.  You don't stone adulterers anymore, thanks to Christ.  So you can act like I am advocating for homosexuals to be stoned to death, but you would be wrong.  In fact, I haven't advocated for a damn thing yet.  All I have done is expressed my sincere displeasure with someone saying what I do and don't know about my own religion.

[ChriswUfGator]

No, Chris, I won't.  And why don't you guys try to stop and have one iota of objective thought about things instead of taking every single thing someone says as a personal assault against your belief system.

I haven't told you shit what you can do with your own "marriage".  I have said that I believe the Bible says you shouldn't be married in the Church.  I'm not the Pope and I'm not the pastor of a Church.  If you can find one that will perform homosexual marriages, fine, but I believe that to be contrary to the Bible.  I have stated repeatedly that I haven't any issue at all with homosexuals as individuals or homosexuals being able to enter what you would call "marriage".  I have only said that I believe the Bible does not stand for that union taking place in the eyes of the Church.

What I have said is perfectly logical, reasonable and entirely within line with Christian teachings.  You and Stephen have decided to tell me to STFU.  Why?  Because you think it's an attack against you or your beliefs and you get to play the victim card with one hand while pulling out the "outrage" card to play with the other.  And its total BS.  I don't know what kind of crap not now and the others have said in the past.  Maybe they have earned your mistrust about their motives.  

I have not.  And I reiterate, do not tell me what I do or don't understand about my religion.

This is amateurish...

Really, people aren't stupid, the whole "If I accuse you of doing what I'm already doing before someone points out that I'm doing it, then I win" doesn't work. Never has, never will. Time for a new strategy.

[ChriswUfGator]

Your point, Stephen?  Christ did not repeal the old laws but he did change the game.  You don't stone adulterers anymore, thanks to Christ.  So you can act like I am advocating for homosexuals to be stoned to death, but you would be wrong.  In fact, I haven't advocated for a damn thing yet.  All I have done is expressed my sincere displeasure with someone saying what I do and don't know about my own religion.

And all I've done is express my sincere displeasure with someone not knowing WTF the point of their own belief system is, but still seeing fit to foist it upon others nevertheless. So I guess that makes us even, according to your own standards, right?

[Tripoli1711]

What are you talking about?  As presented, Christ was put to death because the Jewish elders believed he had blasphemed and the Roman authority on three occasions attempted to decline, stating he did not believe Christ had done anything to deserve death.  He might have ultimately been killed by Pilate for "political convenience" but that isn't why Jesus was in hot water to begin with.

And, again, tell me in what fashion I have turned around the story of Christ's death to in some way make matters bad for you?  HOW!?  Read what I... not anybody else.. not someone I have never met who is nothing more than a screen name on a computer monitor to me.. read what I have said.

What part of any of it in any way condones mistreatment of anyone?

[NotNow]

I am a little unsure how to answer.  I stated waaaayy back at the start that my personal belief is that you can marry, live with, screw, and make miserable anyone you wish.  I also stated my personal belief that "marriage" is a religious ceremony that should be handled in ones own church.  I then stated that the State, or government, should not show any preference to any citizen...straight, gay, black, white, married, single, whatever.  

I also stated that people have a right to their personal religious beliefs.  As long as they live within our laws.

I didn't mention my religious beliefs at all.  I don't see how you will "shred" them.  I don't see how this is "bigoted" and I don't see the reason for your (or StephenDare!'s) defensiveness.  If you have a problem with one of the three beliefs that I stated above, i would appreciate a reasoned response rather than the emotional outburst.

[ChriswUfGator]

What are you talking about?  As presented, Christ was put to death because the Jewish elders believed he had blasphemed and the Roman authority on three occasions attempted to decline, stating he did not believe Christ had done anything to deserve death.  He might have ultimately been killed by Pilate for "political convenience" but that isn't why Jesus was in hot water to begin with.

And, again, tell me in what fashion I have turned around the story of Christ's death to in some way make matters bad for you?  HOW!?  Read what I... not anybody else.. not someone I have never met who is nothing more than a screen name on a computer monitor to me.. read what I have said.

What part of any of it in any way condones mistreatment of anyone?

You have simply restated my own summary to add in some completely unnecessary details, and then act like that somehow changes the conclusion. How is the conclusion of the story any different, or how are the reasons for that conclusion any different? They're not. Stop trying to go to B.S. fall-back argument #2 that always comes out in these debates, which is the "I know more about the bible, so I win" routine. Again, amateurish.

If you'd like to answer my question, then you're free to do that. Again, how exactly can you read the tale of a religion's founder being executed for challenging the religious beliefs reigning at the time, and then take away from that tale some imaginary authority to turn around and treat others in the same fashion? Really? You don't think you've missed the point?

[Shwaz]

This thread is getting hot!

Stephen, what makes it equal? Should churches of every denomination set aside their beliefs and marry gay couples to be truly fair?

[Clem1029]

Wow...this thing exploded entertainingly...

Go figure. It's not about rights. It's not about people. It's about hatred of religion, pure and simple. Glad that much got ironed out quickly.

Ah, the forces of tolerance at work again...

[NotNow]

Well, I guess by this reasoning, I must be an afro-mexican gay muslim female.

I don't get whats so hard to understand about 'equal' or 'human rights'.

Its fine if you guys are bigots.  really.  It doesnt bother me, although you do seem to be awfully thin skinned when it comes to having your own culture/gender/race/orientation questioned.

What the hell does that mean?  How is that a response in any intelligent way to my previous post?  Chris, you want to weigh in?  If you just can't hold it anymore, and you appear to condone StephenDare!'s behavior today, can you give some kind of answer in english?

[ChriswUfGator]

This thread is getting hot!

Stephen, what makes it equal? Should churches of every denomination set aside their beliefs and marry gay couples to be truly fair?

You can go to the courthouse, city hall, or any notary or justice of the peace to get married. And many do.

You don't need any church at all.

Marriage is a legal transferrence of rights, not just a ceremony. Denying rights to others based on nothing more than your personal religious beliefs is rather bigoted, not to mention ethically incorrect.