KBJ Just Doesn't Get It!

[Metro Jacksonville]

KBJ Just Doesn't Get It!



In downtown areas, when a building is destroyed it is often referred to as a  missing tooth . This is because in downtowns, the majority of buildings do not stand alone, but are generally part of a continuous wall of buildings fronting on the street. The missing tooth analogy is appropriate, given the unsightliness of a missing tooth and its overall impact on appearances. Such impacts are especially dramatic when the location of the missing building(s) is at a street corner, where the absence of the building is noticeable from four directions.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/430

[Jason]

>:( How could they need more parking??  The entire rear of that block is already surface lots!!!!

KBJ has done some great work and is full of bright individuals that could use their creativity to think up a better use for that property than a parking lot (oh but it will be landscaped).  the saddest part is that they are requesting demolition of a building that is in the state it is because of their OWN NEGLEGENCE!!!  They didn't recently buy the building, they've had it for years!!  Come 'on guys, where's your creativity and devotion to the urban fabric your building is a part of??

I've lost a lot of respect for this firm.

[claytonbixby]

if we can't rely on architects to do the right thing downtown, I'm afraid downtown is doomed!  These are people that supposedly studied everything that was mentioned in the article.  Architects should be the ones offering up the innovative, the creative solutions.  After this article KBJ should strip architects off their name and just call themselves what they are....draftsmen.  Hey KBJ... why don't you pick up a copy of The Fountainhead and read about a real architect.

[vicupstate]

An architect is someone who is required to see the 'end product' without it already being in existence.  This is one of the foremost firms in the city, to have this request coming from them is very discouraging to anyone that wants to see DT reach it's true potential.  What about corporate responsibility, or does that even exist anymore ?

The KBJ folks need to let Tony Allegretti and anyone else who is interested, take a walk through this building and let them bring alternatives to the table.

This building is directly across the street from the Ambassador Hotel, in which a major renovation is eventually planned.  If someone can envision condos in that building, why is it so far-fetched to picture a restaurant or tavern or more condos in this building?????  

Is DVI going to take a stand on this issue? Is the Historical Commission?  This building was found to meet 4 of the 7 criterias to be considered historic.  Will a building have to designed by Frank Lloyd Wright to be protected in this city?  
 

[JJ]

What is wrong with this town? This must be a joke. Where is Boy Wonder?

[Driven1]

info@kbj.com

[zoo]

...at the King St. station. Take the skyway!

Nice thinking KBJerks...

[Driven1]

We consistently hear from you city leaders that when it comes to downtown parking, we actually have more than enough.  And yet, LUZ, in all their God-given planning wisdom, (who knew that publicly elected officials immediately acquired land use & zoning education & skills upon election) have over-ruled the historic commission (who actually have degrees in their field and know what they are talking about) to recommend destroying an historic church for MORE PARKING.  
 
Please don't let KBJ destroy another historic building downtown.  Check out the current downtown aerial shot to see the "beauty" of surface parking lots in Jacksonville already.
 
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/430/79/
 
 
Here is Charlie Patton's (T-U) story on the destruction of the church...
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/050707/met_168146403.shtml
 
 
To the overall council - I urge you to listen to the recommendation of people who know what they are doing & have education to back up their recommendations - the Historic Commission.  Additionally, is this move part of the Downtown Overlay plan we always talk about sticking to?  Is this part of our Downtown Master Plan?
 
Art - as my councilman - can you please tell me when the vote is on this?
 
One more thought:  Why must someone always be keeping you guys in line?  Why is it so rare that someone in your group will ever just stand up and do the right thing without be called out publicly by the media?  The mental image that comes to mind in regards to how you vote on these issues is just a bunch of noisy cattle being herded along - no one ever stepping out of line.  Now I know the Historic Commission doesn't donate to your campaigns, but COME ON - think about it - do we really NEED another surface parking lot?  Who's herding the cattle on this vote?
 
Yours sincerely,

[thelakelander]

Zoo, they don't even have to go that far.  The downtown trolley route takes the thing dead smack dab right in front of their building.  We have mass transit and parking garages in downtown for a reason.  If KBJ can't "lower" themselves to using these things, then maybe it's time for them to consider relocating.   At least then, someone can eventually come in and rid downtown of the rest of the parking on that block.

[jd134]

You must be kidding, you expect KBJ staff or their clients to have to use the Skyway or Trolley.....come on now, what are we thinking.  Our City Council needs to step up to the plate on this and put a stop to it.  If KBJ doesnt like it, then head to the burbs and have all the parking you want at your front door.

[Jeremiah]

Ok people, let's get real here.  First, I had to laugh at the little blurb about the Ambassador Hotel.  That place has been "under development" for years.  It will never be converted to anything usefull, because IT WILL COST TOO MUCH MONEY!  Developers (the ones who really drive the architecture of your city) call the shots.  And the shots are called by the bottom line.  You don't like it?  Become a developer and change things.  
Now, let me say that, NO, I do not agree that this structure should be torn down for another surface parking lot, nor a multi-storied parking lot for that matter.  But to say that this building is historically significant is a bit much.  The Hayden-Burns Library, that is significant.  The Florida Life Building (Trio) is significant.  A ratty old church building that was sitting vacant and unused for over a decade BEFORE KBJ bought the structure is not significant.  Where were your bleeding hearts for this building 30 years ago when the pastor abandoned it?  Where were your words of recrimination for him?
I think that, perhaps, this building would be worth saving....20 YEARS AGO.  Also, no one has bothered to mention the vast undertaking of Asbestos abatement that KBJ already went through in an attempt to begin the process of restoring the building.  But upon inspection, the roof is entirely unsound.  The walls have become so termite infested that the only thing holding the building up is the black mold found high is the eaves.  While I more than welcome anyone to come up with a viable solution in the hopes of saving any building, you still have to be realistic.  And realistically speaking, this building is simply not worth saving in hopes of renovation and adding 3 or 4 more condo units to the cityscape.  And anyone who has actually been inside this little building on the corner would be able to immediately see that it is not spacious and would be suited for nothing better than storage, a few offices, a few condos/apartments (which would require on site parking by the way), or perhaps an assembly hall of some kind.  All of these things make it completely undesirable to any reputable businessman with half the sense of my 8 year old daughter.
So, to make a short story long...you all want to throw accusations at those who would do "something" with the site.  Why not instead use that fervor to enact some real change in our city which we all love.

[Driven1]

QUOTE: Why not instead use that fervor to enact some real change in our city which we all love.

You mean...something like destroy the building turn it into a surface parking lot.  I agree that would enact massive change in the downtown core.

That is what you are forgetting my KBJ-loving friend.  They want to tear it down and put in surface parking.  Have you seen the aerial shots?  There is parking all around there.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=p1npz085vd2n&style=o&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1269462&encType=1

[thelakelander]

Ok people, let's get real here. First, I had to laugh at the little blurb about the Ambassador Hotel. That place has been "under development" for years. It will never be converted to anything usefull, because IT WILL COST TOO MUCH MONEY!

For the Ambassador to be renovated, its going to need incentives from the historic fund.   That's very possible considering several other buildings in far worse shape are currently in the process of being renovated.   Nevertheless, I'll agree that you won't see anything happen until the courthouse situation is resolved.  Hopefully, we won't get someone with the grand idea of converting that site into a surface lot, before then.

Now, let me say that, NO, I do not agree that this structure should be torn down for another surface parking lot, nor a multi-storied parking lot for that matter. But to say that this building is historically significant is a bit much. The Hayden-Burns Library, that is significant. The Florida Life Building (Trio) is significant. A ratty old church building that was sitting vacant and unused for over a decade BEFORE KBJ bought the structure is not significant. Where were your bleeding hearts for this building 30 years ago when the pastor abandoned it? Where were your words of recrimination for him?

The historic debate is mute, imo.  This situation is more about not allowing a piece of blight (yes I'm saying surface parking lots in downtown environments equate to blight) in the heart of the core.  There probably wouldn't even be a debate if KBJ was proposing something that benefitted the core, instead of taking away from it.  Also, the church moved out in 1981, the same year KBJ purchased it.  Its only in it's condition today, because of 26 years of questionable maintainance by it's owner.

And realistically speaking, this building is simply not worth saving in hopes of renovation and adding 3 or 4 more condo units to the cityscape. And anyone who has actually been inside this little building on the corner would be able to immediately see that it is not spacious and would be suited for nothing better than storage, a few offices, a few condos/apartments (which would require on site parking by the way), or perhaps an assembly hall of some kind. All of these things make it completely undesirable to any reputable businessman with half the sense of my 8 year old daughter.

Seriously, as an graduate architect and urban planner with experience in development, this statement  is a bit...."visionless".  However, the only true way to judge would be for KBJ to put the site on the market and see who bites.  You'd be amazed with what creative types could do, with a +7,000sf brick structure on a 62'x105' lot in the heart of downtown.  However, I'd also put money that KBJ has no desire to do such a thing, for fear someone would just make an offer, or else they would have did it decades ago, instead of letting it deteriorate into the condition it is in today.  Btw, you can get around the off-street parking requirements in the urban core.  We have zoning overlays and depending on the use, you can always pay $1,500 for a PUD.

So, to make a short story long...you all want to throw accusations at those who would do "something" with the site. Why not instead use that fervor to enact some real change in our city which we all love.

Sometimes you have to save your city from those you would think are educated enough to understand these issues.  So, believe me, we're doing just that.  Also, keep in mind, this is not about the building, as much as it is putting a surface parking lot on a prime development parcel in the heart of the Northbank, which is equivalent to putting a strip club, next to a school or liquor store next to a day care.  Surface lots are a blight on the urban core, no matter which way you slice it or dress them up with plants.  You and I know, KBJ has enough design professionals to come up with solutions to what ever issues they may have that benefits, not only them, but the core as well.  Lets see them. ;)

[avonjax]

And KBJ allowed this building to fall into disrepair....
As far as historic significance, we don't allow many buildings to stand long enough to reach that designation.
When you look back on what has been lost, it easy to understand how sensitve some of us have become about anything begin torn down downtown.
Just recently a very nice building, formerly Southern Bell, was demolished on Adams Street on a block that still stands empty waiting for the new court house. The city didn't really need that block for the project imo.
Just look from La Villa east and you will see why so many of us are opposed to this...
30 years ago Jax wasn't a sea of surface parking lots.
And although I' sure KBJ will nicely landscape their lot, just the thought of another one is vomit inducing.
BTW if people hadn't stood up against this kind of thing and been vocal The Jacksonville Terminal would be just  another surface parking lot.
Granted this building is nowhere nearly as important as the Terminal but if we don't speak out nothing will be left....

[Steve]

A ratty old church building that was sitting vacant and unused for over a decade BEFORE KBJ bought the structure is not significant. Where were your bleeding hearts for this building 30 years ago when the pastor abandoned it? Where were your words of recrimination for him?

Personally, I could care less about the historic value, and let me say that if they were going to tear it down to build office space with some ground level retail, I don't know if I would care.

The fact here is two things:

1. They bought the building the same year the previous tenant vacated the building.  After 26 years, the building required 400K to get it up to code.  Tell me again how this isn't demolition by neglect?

2. The downtowen master plan says specifically, "Promote development of structured
parking, particularly within the Central Civic Core, and discourage surface parking throughout
downtown"  It also says, "Large surface parking lots are considered a poor use of land and
should be minimized or eliminated where possible".  

Finally, it goes on to say, "Prohibit new surface parking lots in the Central Civic Core District requiring all new parking to be provided in structures" and "Discourage the demolition of historic buildings for the construction of parking facilities, at a minimum require the retention and incorporation of the historic facade within the new building form"

What the hell is the point of a downtown master plan that we don't follow?