Offshore Oil Drilling and the Oil Rig Disaster in the Gulf

[Doctor_K]

Im with you Doc and DW...

Of course you are. 

Emergencies and shortages are great motivators.

For what?

[JC]

Im with you Doc and DW...

Of course you are. 

Emergencies and shortages are great motivators.

For what?

change...

[Doctor_K]

Im with you Doc and DW...

Of course you are.  

Emergencies and shortages are great motivators.

Especially for squeezing out top dollar on obsolete products!

Like print media?  Or land-line phones?

[Dog Walker]

Moderators:   Should this thread be combined with the other one on the same subject?

[buckethead]

I eagerly anticipate the onset of renewable energy that competes with (surpasses) the cost effectiveness of fossil fuels. There have been bold predictions and stunning presentations saying it is just around the corner.

[JC]

Last I checked oil and gas were not obsolete but essential and there is most definitely a shortage of alternatives!

That is a brilliant response, when does something become obsolete?  Oh yeah, when something else makes it no longer necessary, but what if the owners/producers of something that should be obsolete are using their tremendous wealth and power to obstruct development of new technology.  But dont worry, tax payers will subsidize technological advancements through the DOD.

Biofuels Probably Have a Brighter Future in Aviation than Ground Transport
The U.S. military is the #1 consumer of oil in the world, and the Navy's ships and planes use a large fraction of the total. For strategic reasons first and environmental reasons second, the Navy has made it a goal to start using more home-grown biofuels to power its vehicles. The latest milestone took place last week when a F/A-18 Super Hornet multirole fighter jet, dubbed the "Green Hornet", flew for 45 minutes using a 50/50 blend of regular jet fuel and camelina-based biofuel.



http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/04/fa-18-super-hornet-fighter-jet-flies-50-50-biofuels-us-navy.php

Thought you might need some help!

Main Entry: 1ob·so·lete
Pronunciation: \ˌäb-sə-ˈlēt, ˈäb-sə-ˌ\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin obsoletus, from past participle of obsolescere to grow old, become disused, perhaps from ob- toward + solēre to be accustomed
Date: 1579

1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b : of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned <an obsolete technology>
2 of a plant or animal part : indistinct or imperfect as compared with a corresponding part in related organisms : vestigial

[JC]

I eagerly anticipate the onset of renewable energy that competes with (surpasses) the cost effectiveness of fossil fuels. There have been bold predictions and stunning presentations saying it is just around the corner.

LOL..

Far From Free-Market Prices for Gasoline
gasoline petrol

True Cost of U.S. Gasoline is $15.14 per Gallon, Report Says
by Tom Doggett & edited by The Progress Report staff
So you think you're getting a good deal on a tank of gasoline these days? You wouldn't think so if all the oil industry tax subsidies received from the federal and state governments and other costs that went into producing that gallon of gasoline were included in the pump price.

Such external costs push the true price of gasoline as high as $15.14 a gallon, according to a new report released by the International Centre for Technology Assessment.

"In reality, the external costs of using our cars are much higher than we may realize," the Washington-based research group said in its report.

    Publisher's note -- for a deeper look at this, see Clifford W. Cobb's article here.  http://www.progress.org/cobb01.htm

The report examined more than 40 separate cost factors, the group said, that are associated with gasoline production but aren't reflected by the price of gasoline at the pump.

These external costs total up to $1.69 trillion per year, according to the report.

The group points out that the federal government provides the oil industry with tax breaks and massive corporate welfare handouts, so gasoline is artificially cheap for American consumers.

The Department of Energy is forecasting that the national price for regular unleaded gasoline will average $1.02 during the current quarter, which, when adjusted for inflation, is the lowest price on record for any three-month period.

Artificial, anti-free-market subsidies don't end at the federal level, as the group said most state income taxes are in turn based on oil firms' lower federal tax bills, which result in companies paying $123 million to $323 million less in state taxes.

In addition to tax breaks, the federal government provides up to $114.6 billion to the wealthy industry in giveaways and subsidies annually that support the extraction, production and use of petroleum, such as research and development and export financing.

The federal government also spends up to $1.6 billion yearly on regulatory oversight, pollution cleanup and liability costs connected to the oil industry, the group said.

In addition, U.S. military spending allocated to guard the world's petroleum resources totals $55 billion to $96 billion a year, according to the group.

[buckethead]

You can do better than that^

I do not claim to be an expert, but I don't believe biofuels are greener than fossil fuels when mass produced. This may not always be the case. The most promising venture IMO is algae to biofuels. Photosynthesis to 60 mph in 4 seconds.

Until someone, (even if by armed revolution), develops a better, cheaper means of powering modern society, fossil fuels will remain indespensible.

[Doctor_K]

In addition to tax breaks, the federal government provides up to $114.6 billion to the wealthy industry in giveaways and subsidies annually that support the extraction, production and use of petroleum, such as research and development and export financing.

The federal government also spends up to $1.6 billion yearly on regulatory oversight, pollution cleanup and liability costs connected to the oil industry, the group said.

And here I thought it was all W's fault, supporting his oil buddies.  It still happens?

And I still don't see how petroleum is obsolete.

[JC]

You can do better than that^

I do not claim to be an expert, but I don't believe biofuels are greener than fossil fuels when mass produced. This may not always be the case. The most promising venture IMO is algae to biofuels. Photosynthesis to 60 mph in 4 seconds.

Until someone, (even if by armed revolution), develops a better, cheaper means of powering modern society, fossil fuels will remain indespensible.

You missed the point, petro is not cheap!  The costs are disbursed all over the rest of the economy.  I mean hell, we fight wars for the stuff, is the cost of a kevlar vest and an armored humvee included in every gallon?

[buckethead]

I got the point. I doubt the source.

[JC]

In addition to tax breaks, the federal government provides up to $114.6 billion to the wealthy industry in giveaways and subsidies annually that support the extraction, production and use of petroleum, such as research and development and export financing.

The federal government also spends up to $1.6 billion yearly on regulatory oversight, pollution cleanup and liability costs connected to the oil industry, the group said.

And here I thought it was all W's fault, supporting his oil buddies.  It still happens?

And I still don't see how petroleum is obsolete.

Ohhhh, here we go with the distractions, thanks for bringing politricks into the equation.  Obama is as guilty as Bush, I forgot, it has to be said in the beginning of every thread!  Clinton was bad too, he blew it with NAFTA and blah blah blah...

Now can we get back on topic?

[JC]

I got the point. I doubt the source.

I will provide more sources after my evening walk with my wife.

[BridgeTroll]

Again JC... just how much of ours or the worlds power is derived from solar and wind?  How about ten years from now?  20? 30?

By your definition oil and gas may be obolete but it still... by a wiiiide and disproportionate margin makes the world go round...

The need to drill continues... unabated.

[Doctor_K]

In addition to tax breaks, the federal government provides up to $114.6 billion to the wealthy industry in giveaways and subsidies annually that support the extraction, production and use of petroleum, such as research and development and export financing.

The federal government also spends up to $1.6 billion yearly on regulatory oversight, pollution cleanup and liability costs connected to the oil industry, the group said.

And here I thought it was all W's fault, supporting his oil buddies.  It still happens?

And I still don't see how petroleum is obsolete.

Ohhhh, here we go with the distractions, thanks for bringing politricks into the equation.  Obama is as guilty as Bush, I forgot, it has to be said in the beginning of every thread!  Clinton was bad too, he blew it with NAFTA and blah blah blah...

Now can we get back on topic?

Well we were on-topic.  Stephen was positing that fossil fuels are obsolete.  Bridge and I were suggesting that they weren't.  

You threw something in about change and catastrophe, and also an interesting counter-point of cost effectiveness to Bucket's train of thought.  You also managed to support Bridge's and my argument that fossil fuels and the things we get from them are, in fact, not obsolete.

I'm not at all a fan in theory of the federal government subsidizing the hell out of fossil fuels and petroleum.  However, if that means I can get gas at just shy of $3.00 a gallon as opposed to just shy of $15, all the better. 

Since there are no solar-powered cars on the market, nor fuel-cell or battery-powered cars that don't cost two legs and an arm, and since Jacksonville's mass transit is neither mass nor transit, I'll hang with my ICE car and $2.89 a gallon fossil fuel gasoline and await with bated breath the arrival of mass-produced, mass-marketed alternative-energy-powered vehicles.