Should Hate Be Outlawed?

[Ocklawaha]

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/let-the-cat-out-of-the-bag.html

I am not one to challenge Ock's claims of a historical nature.

Word is, he was there.

However did you know buckethead? Wow!!

Give yourself an A+ from DOC OCK, you are the only one that caught the double meaning... Revealing the "secret" that the "cat" in question was used on the bare backs and butt's of thousands if not millions of non-African's before it was ever used on a African American. Not to say right or wrong, just a fact, it was a "white mans" invention to met out punishment to those who had broken the law.  As for the bag, it held the cat o nine tails and in fact the cat itself was often braided by the one who would get the stripes. If the cat's knots failed, they doubled the punishment, or worse!

Meanwhile your source sort of failed you on the bag part. The Cat-o-nine-tails was indeed kept in a red baize bag, aboard all warships and merchantmen of the English Empire.  The condemned would be forced to hold the bag while the charges and number of lashes was announced. The Captain then gave an order, "Boatswain's mate, do your duty."  At which point the prisoner opened the bag and the cat was removed, the poor victim was tied fast to the main mast, yard arm, or across the captains daughter... IE: a cannon.  I have no doubt that this expression originated with the Royal Navy, as by 1715, pirates around the world were using the term, as were the ships of the mogul of India, and throughout the mid east.

Sadly JC didn't understand that (as usual) I was tossing history, and theory together in some very abstract thoughts. He apparently thought we were arguing!  I'm just using the naval term "FIRE FOR EFFECT" to launch some various new avenues of thinking this through.  Sorry if your offended by the Ancient One JC, no harm intended.


OCKLAWAHA

[JagFan07]

So why isn't this a "Hate Crime"?

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20100424/NEWS/4240339/1001

Madison-Rankin District Attorney Michael Guest said Friday he doesn't expect charges to be upgraded against the man accused of killing white supremacist Richard Barrett.

Neither Guest nor Rankin County Sheriff Ronnie Pennington would discuss a possible motive in the case.

Vincent McGee, 22, a state inmate on supervised release, will make his first court appearance Monday on charges of murder and first-degree arson.

Meanwhile, three others are charged as accessories after the fact in connection with Barrett's homicide.

Barrett's body was found in his Pearl-area home Thursday. He had been severely burned, beaten and stabbed, Pennington said.

McGee was charged a few hours after Barrett's body was discovered. McGee and Barrett lived three houses apart on East Petros Road in the Monterey community.

On Friday, McGee's stepfather, Alfred Lewis, 42, and friends Michael Dent, 22, and Vickie Dent, 38, were arrested as accessories. The Dents, mother and son, also were charged with arson.

All three are expected to have initial court appearances Monday or Tuesday in Rankin County Court.

McGee's family members say the suspect and Barrett knew one another because McGee had done yard work twice for him.

"He was unhappy with pay both times," Lewis said.

Lewis said his stepson once worked a full day for Barrett, scraping paint off a home near Ross Barnett Reservoir for $1 and a bowl of spaghetti, when he was 17.

Still, after getting out of prison two months ago, McGee decided to work for Barrett again - this time at a home in Utica. He worked six hours and was paid only $26, according to Lewis.

Lewis said McGee was dropped off by Barrett about 6 p.m. Wednesday.

Police believe McGee returned to Barrett's residence later that night.

Guest said police believe the Dents drove McGee there.

Neighbors say Barrett, 67, kept to himself. They say he was rarely home, and when he was, he was mowing his lawn or riding his bicycle up and down the rural road.

"He never associated with anyone around him - no black people," neighbor Henderson Craig said. "Everyone knew what he stood for, and that didn't bother us."

Barrett, a lawyer and decorated Vietnam War veteran, headed the Nationalist Movement - a white supremacist organization from which he tried to rally support for causes ranging from racial segregation to fighting for symbols such as the Confederate flag.

McGee is an African American with a list of run-ins with law enforcement.

On Feb. 23, McGee was released early from prison after serving more than four years for assaulting law enforcement officers and grand larceny.

He was charged in October 2005 with two counts of simple assault on law officers.

McGee hit two officers at the juvenile detention center and threatened them, according to an account from the Rankin County Sheriff's Department. The summary says McGee became unruly in his cell. He was supposed to be released that day, but no one had picked him up.

"Upon opening the cell door, McGee came out of the cell and began to hit both officer(s) with his fist. Because of his behavior, McGee was placed under arrest and charged with two counts of assault on a police officer.

"During this time, McGee threatened both officer(s) and promised them a shot to the head upon his release from jail," the report said.

Why McGee was in jail at the time was not explained. Juvenile records are not public.

In 2007, he was charged with grand larceny.

McGee's court-appointed attorney on the simple assault charge, Dan Duggan, is now an assistant district attorney.

Guest said Friday he sees no conflict with his office prosecuting the case.

"We routinely prosecute new cases where the defendants were represented by a public defender who is now on my staff," Guest said.

If convicted, McGee will face a maximum life in prison.

The maximum charge for accessory after the fact is five years. The maximum penalty for arson is 20 years .

[finehoe]

So why isn't this a "Hate Crime"?

Where does it say he was killed because of his race?

[buckethead]

Is race the only consideration for hate?

[JagFan07]

"He had been severely burned, beaten and stabbed"

Sounds like love to me.

[JC]

So why isn't this a "Hate Crime"?

Oooh, oooh, I know "reverse racism."

[buckethead]

Is reverse racism where a person (of any particular race) considers him/herself to be genetically superior to members of his own race?

Is it when a person considers his/her own race genetically inferior?

Please clarify.

[JagFan07]

Actually not, just an example of why a crime is a crime, no matter who it is perpetrated on. Oh, but I shouldn't have an opinion because as you said I am a "straight white male".

[JC]

Actually not, just an example of why a crime is a crime, no matter who it is perpetrated on. Oh, but I shouldn't have an opinion because as you said I am a "straight white male".

Not all crimes are equal, there are always mitigating factors. 

I never said straight white men should not be INCLUDED in a discussion but until your human rights are legally stripped away and your ass is beaten by white cops and chewed upon by their dogs your opinion means much less than the opinions of those who have experienced said ass chewing and beating and rights stripping!







Show me an example in the US, of an encompassing Black, Female or Gay power structure violating the rights of a white man.  Ok, that's a rhetorical question because it doesn't exist!  But all the pieces are still in place and often executed for there to be some serious civil rights violations, just like this so-called "driving while Hispanic" law in Arizona. 

Sorry Buckethead, I should have said "reverse discrimination" not "reverse racism" my bad!

[buckethead]

I would think a person beating, bludgeoning, burning another person to death constitutes a heinous act by a "power structure".

I get that you don't like injustice. I find it admirable.

You seem to be selective in which injustices are less unjust. Murder is murder.

[JC]

I would think a person beating, bludgeoning, burning another person to death constitutes a heinous act by a "power structure".

I get that you don't like injustice. I find it admirable.

You seem to be selective in which injustices are less unjust. Murder is murder.

Murder is murder?  Its universal?  The punishment should be dealt fairly without exception?

[finehoe]

Is race the only consideration for hate?

No, but in your original posting starting the thread you said "Let's say for the sake of discussion hate based upon recial (sic) prejudice and/or bigotry" so I thought that's what we were discussing.

[JC]

You know what? I am not going to wait for an answer!

The people who were not running down the street naked, bodies on fire, the dead ones, the children, were they murdered? 

The dead here, after the fire bombing of Tokyo during WWII, murdered also?  Watch Fog Of War with McNamara and he admits what was done was a war crime, did they do any jail time?  You know the answer!




Every innocent Iraqi who dies, murdered as well?  Same as killing someone for 50 dollars or cause you think they are a 'nigger' or a 'fag?'

[Ocklawaha]

You know what? I am not going to wait for an answer!

The people who were not running down the street naked, bodies on fire, the dead ones, the children, were they murdered? 

The girl in the photo wasn't even involved in military action...

It is a heart-wrenching photo, told since 1996 with a heart-wrenching story, but if a picture speaks a thousand words, most of the words now associated with this photo are false or misleading. It is a counterfeit commercial parable to generate maximum donations, and relies not on what actually occurred in 1972, but on dramatic fabrications that appear to have been invented specifically to enhance the impact of the Canadian produced documentary, and increase revenues for certain foundations.

The photo is an accurate depiction of about 1/500th of a second of the immediate aftermath of an all-Vietnamese accident in an all-Vietnamese fight in June of 1972, and it was originally reported that way.

OCKLAWAHA

[JC]

The girl in the photo wasn't even involved in military action...

If you are correct, I question because you didnt provide a source, it doesn't ok, there are other countless examples of American Soldiers murdering civilians.  

There is no difference, in the end we are talking about the death of innocence, the destruction of something that was acting completely contrary to the action taken against it!  

Again, I ask, whats the difference between killing innocent civilians (collateral damage) shooting someone for $50 or lynching someone for the color of their skin?