Comments about historic preservation.

[mtraininjax]

Timkin - How about an update on PS4, are you getting closer to adding new chain link to the front entrance? How is the roof holding up? Built in 1917, if we give it 7 more years, it will truly be historic. Can it last that long from my bulldozer?

[vicupstate]

So Mtrain, how long should a building be vacant before the city demand that it be demolished? 

All of the Laura Trio buildings have been vacant for well over a decade, so obviously, you would like to see them leveled.  Both the Carling and 11E buildings were vacant for over a decade as well.  It's really a shame that they were allowed to stand for so long.

The St. James building was vacant for many years, at LEAST 5 I think. Shouldn't that disqualify it as an appropriate location for a city hall?

Does your manifesto extend to suburban big-boxes that moved yet another 2 miles farther out into the suburbs, leaving blight in it's wake? 

BTW, what should be done with the vacant land?  There is enough vacant land in LaVilla to plant a huge wheat field.  At least that would achieve some utility.

[Timkin]

Mtrain... hehe...man you just are endless with the negativity.   Thank you so much..PS 4 has a new owner now... You may have known that ..may have not.. If you clearly read any of my previous posts..maybe you had too many Schlitzs .... I have put the PRESENT owner in touch with two (2)  prospects who wrote to ME... I presume they read the articles of my efforts on the School...  So hold off on your bulldozer for now.. I ll be the first to let you know if one is needed...   Your tone is again spiteful and negative. but thats okay... you will not get the satisfaction of bulldozing the School .. I WILL MAKE DAMN SURE of that.

It is obvious ...not just to me but to many that you are one of those who want to Raze everything in sight just because its vacant..

And to be candid  the roof is obviously not in good shape ,,but that does not ruin the building's potential as a project...  It is simply that the mindset was residential for 30 years and we now know that is not going to work. I ,for one am glad to see it change hands because I now belive it has a chance and a very good one at that to A . See renovation and B. see a new use.

Hold off on your bulldozer..   I ll be the first to let you know if that situation changes.

[Ocklawaha]

There is no need for you to launch such a negative attack on one (Timkin) that has done so much good in this community, and truly is working with the owners for positive change.  Frankly mtrain, you don't have a clue about how active, and of what progress he has made, and how with MJ's full support, he is moving the mountain. I'm not at liberty to post the details, but  believe me, we haven't heard the last of this.

The reason the downtown is a ghost of it's former self is we have no economic driver. A few redesigned, walkable, urban core street scrapes, streetcar, convention center in downtown and rebuilt Jacksonville Terminal, power us onto center stage of America's resurgent urban cores. Laura Street, and the 2030 mobility plan address all of these issues. The foundation has been laid, here at MJ, and by our contributor's like Timkin. We would like to remember all of you for your positive thoughts and actions.


OCKLAWAHA

[Timkin]

Thanks Ock and Stephen....  M....... you just sit on your buldozer and have another Schlitz...and another and another... because I think you're going to be sitting on ( not using ) that bulldozer for a long time to come.   Again ...people like yourself run their mouths and watch things happen.. people like myself MAKE things happen.  That is just one of (thank god) many differences between your "Hot air"  ( yes ..that is actually your hot air you're hearing) and MY actions.

  You will see positive changes at Public School #4.   Mark my words.   Then , lets see who the hot air really belongs to... 

M-train ...if you have nothing positive to say ...to me at least,  Id rather you keep your mouth shut.

[stjr]

Walking around in a building in use is one thing, but just saving a structure because its 100 years old to keep it around and HOPE someone will occupy it is wrong. We don't build structures to let them sit idle, so why would you keep "historic" facilities only to let them sit alone? Bad idea, tear them down if not in use.

With this thinking, why do we have archaeological digs, museums, libraries, historical sites, monuments, history books, documentaries, retrospectives, parties and events with retro or historic themes, tribute bands, highlight shows, "classic" TV channels, memoirs, collectibles, antique shows, etc.?   The fact is, most people invest a significant amount of resources in seeking out our past history and preserving remnants of it.

Mtrain, either you have a damaged past that causes you to disavow it or you are just posting to tweak those of us who treasure history.  Not sure which, but it matters not.  Fortunately, the viewpoints you espouse are not sincerely shared by many including young people.

History is an acquired taste for some and appreciation of it grows with time in the minds of many.  Few young people appreciate antique furniture, for example, or keeping up with the family tree, but as they reach mid-life their tastes, interests, and perspectives change.  As they come to realize we are all here but for a mere moment in time, and that the really important things in life are our experiences, not our material belongings, many of us begin to seek meaning and context for those experiences.  Putting things within historical context is an exercise toward this goal.  The ability to see tangible evidence of our past is critical to our ability to imagine it and grasp its meaning.  Living for only today is what ails much of our society.  That money, resources, and, mostly, personal relationships and accomplishments and sacrifices by others are disposable and have no long term consequences bodes poorly for the sustainability of our culture and way of life.  That you and others like you lack appreciation of that is your great loss and I feel sorry for the emptiness you have within you. 

Trying to get young people to care about "historic" in jax is like asking the SJTC to stop building new trendy restaurants. Nice idea, but it won't happen, because the young people want to go to new and trendy. The Landing is dead without more people living downtown. It cannot compete with SJTC and no one wants to drive for the same thing you can find on Southside Blvd.

The Landing is far from "historic" other than for its failure to succeed.  Using it to make your case against historic preservation is completely off base.

The fact is that many, if not most, successful "downtown" entertainment districts in this country reside in areas featuring concentrations of historic, unique, quirky, and intimate structures with charm, warmth, and character that can't be duplicated today.  And, as to young people appreciating that, go to many college towns or campus fringes and see what types of buildings house the liveliest night life, or go look at the average age of people in entrainment districts located in historic areas.

Going to SJTC is akin to going to Disney World.  It can be fun, but it is all fantasy and synthetic.  There is nothing genuine about the place.  Like comparing real leather or wood to vinyl, cotton to polyester, margarine to butter, canned vegetables to fresh, a photocopy of great art to the original, a recording to a live concert, and email to an in-person meeting ....  there is a reason the market place values the genuine article many times more than the copy or fake.

[Timkin]

stjr...... Thank you for your thoughts ..  I think M-train's insults are personal and directed mostly at me...  Especially his threat with a bulldozer..    IF HE IS SMART...and I question that .... he would not go around using such threats...  It is probably indicative of the misery of a life he suffers , and I regret that....but his negativity is counter-productive..  I could be wrong but I would wager he would never spend 10 cents of his money or 30 seconds of his time to help anyone do anything, unless there was something in it for him.    but there are those kinds in this world.   I will go on doing what I am doing... and I suppose he...free to his opinion , will go on doing his deeds too.

[sheclown]

well, I hate to interrupt a good argument...but, I just found out that the HPC will be honoring Lisa Neary at the Annual Preservation Awards Ceremony for her work...

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6729.0.html

Thursday May 4 @ 6:00 in the Main Library Auditorium.

The Annual Preservation Awards Ceremony will honor individuals and organizations that have contributed to historic preservation efforts in Jacksonville.  Lisa will be honored during a memorial tribute at the beginning of the ceremony.

[Timkin]

Congrats to her..  For the record.... I am not trying to start a huge disagreement in this thread (or any other for that matter)   I worked on the Annie Lytle issue into the wee hours of this morning.. I had a very pleasent and encouraging conversation with a potential developer... actually part of a large group of developers.... I hope M will take the time to read this thread and recognize that I am not launching a personal attack... I am trying to save history ...whether he views that history not worth saving or otherwise.  

Even given PS#4s condition , these folks will be arranging with the new owners (these parties have been put in direct contact with each other)...and I will be meeting with both sides.  They feel even given its condition, there is a solution which would not involve removing the School. Both sides are aware of its protected landmark status..

I will keep the forum posted of the findings.  I find my approach productive at least. ..  Only time will tell where this leads.. but the important starting point is THERE IS A DEFINITE INTEREST.

and for the record...they may well be interested in the FS#5  building as well... again time will tell. They are aware of the urgency to act on FS# 5.

So possibly...very possibly even , 2 landmarks may be seeing the light in the end of the tunnel...and not that of a demolition team.

[Debbie Thompson]

I remember about 10 years ago when someone was trying to make PS#4 into condos, and one of the selling features was that the park would be at the builidng's doorstep.  When they built the flyover, instead there is a chainlink fence and a scum pond of standing water at the buiding's doorstep.  Good going...  If they can take down the fence, drain the standing water, and extend the "under the bridge" cobblestones, that building can still work, even for residential.  You can install soundproof windows.

[Timkin]

That was around 2000 when Atkinson and Knight was listing it...had a banner across the front of it.. I think a few units even actually had interested buyers .....until they learned about the forthcoming, now present day flyover ramp.  the installation of that , alone took away alot of the front yard. .

For whatever use may be in store... it would nearly be a must to somehow reconnect the School to Riverside Park. It can be done very easily.

[vicupstate]

I have plans from the condo design.  They had quite a few buyers too, more than just a handful.  Pity, that it didn't turn out that way.

[Timkin]

Vicup.....GLAD to hear you have those....they could come in handy...