Ten Reasons to Save Fire Station Five

[Timkin]

Is there any particular reason ...instead of spending the considerable amount it would cost to demolish the Fire House and pay to put it in a landfill somewhere , WHY that money could not be used towards moving it to some location closeby.... Hear me out on this...

Brooklyn....particularly the area near FS5  has so much vacant property ,it is unbelievable... For the sake of saving this basicly two story house. ( we are not trying to move a 10 story hotel here or anything even close... we are talking about a big house...... SOMEWHERE close by...within blocks of where it now is...making the move very easy  and let it sit on some vacant property somewhere close by until a use can be identified and a place to move it permanently..  Movers ...more often than not will leave the building on the rails they move the unit on... and I would wager there are movers lined up willing to get the work.. I personally know two very well and would call them at a drop of a hat to get estimate if this would help.

  The notion that this is a "lost cause"  is so typical of the lack of vision in this city..  It is still standing and therefore NOT a lost cause.   As I sound like a broken record on the School 4 thread  I repeat ..where there is a will , there is a way... Why not approach Mr Milne...he has 3 vacant lots on College...ask about the possibility of storing the building on the corner lot of College and Roselle for a reasonable sum of rent to let the building sit there.   Where there is a will there is a way..

When will our city leaders get this message...  We really must stop demolishing everything in sight because it is old.... To be an attractive Urban city , one must have a reasonable amount of historic landmarks..  Alot of folks like the look of the old....

As to FS#5  Corporate Firehouse subs could be in some of the building.... why not have a franchise as well in the lower level I cannot think of a more fitting tribute...

The mindset has to change people.....  I could give a $%!5 less about restaurants that never opened or Landing Parking...  Wastes of monies like that give our endangered landmarks even less..

Lets get rid of some of the hugely overpaid salaries residing at City Hall...  That alone would help our financial situation in this city.

As to who SHOULD PAY...to me , that should be Fidelity...if they are so eager to pay to demolish the building... why not do something to their credit and save a landmark by moving it elsewhere..  The costs to them would be a drop of a water in a Lake compared to their land value they have acquired.

[Timkin]

I would ALSO very willingly donate my time to help move the building.

[stjr]

Unfortunately, it doesn't cost much to tear down buildings.  That's why the option is pursued so often.  Don't count on avoiding that cost as a major factor in Fidelity's thinking.  The added bonus of demoliton to the property owner is that they don't pay extra property taxes on the "improvements".  Sad but true.

If Fidelity does something, it will be out of their "love" for our history and community.  At their size, this whole project is chump change.  Not even a week's pay in some years for their CEO or less than one hour's revenue for their group of companies.

We could hope that Fidelity donates it to the community as the "Fidelity Riverside-Brooklyn Community Center".  RAP and the City of Jacksonville should jointly ask them.

[vicupstate]

Shwaz, someone stated on here that the investor would pay slightly more than half the cost of moving it.  Whatever parcel the city donated would not be that large, and it would start to pay taxes once it is in private hands.  It would not have to be 'primest' parcel either. 

If Fidelity agreed to this and donated the money they would save (which would probably pay 1/6 or more of the cost of moving it), the mayor could publicly commend them in a visible way.  No Fortune 500 company would mind some good PR.     

I commend you Timken, Jax needs more minds like yours. 

[fieldafm]

Fidelity cut 600 positions in the first quarter of this year.  Asking them to pick up the tab to move the fire station in the name of good citenzship is a tough pill to swallow for the good citizens that had their jobs eliminated.  Paying to demo the building is about 1/45th the cost you are proposing them to take on to move the building.  Fidelity is a very good steward to the city of Jacksonville.  I think it is uncategorrilby incorrect to view them as the bad guys in this situation.

I'm not in favor of losing the fire station.  However, its an economic reality IMO.

For the passionate individuals in this thread, I truly understand and share your passion for this city.  We are all in this together.  If you think you can make the argument for Firehouse Subs to move their corporate headquarters, move a building, secure property, and rehab and retrofit the building then I encourage you to do so.  Those guys are sharp as a tack.  If the economic argument makes sense, they're smart enough to pull the trigger.

I think once you study the numbers, the picture isnt so pretty.  There arent exactly buyers lined up.  There is a time to see the forrest through the trees, and then there's a time to make sure you don't kill yourself running into a tree.

My point about the Landing being a true community focus are fourfold ... the city has an obligation contractually to provide assistance for parking facilities, the money exists, the Landing is the anchor for the millions being poured into Laura Street, and a successful Landing offers by FAR the most bang for the buck(the Landing is the second most visited destination in the city and the most visited destination downtown... its not even in the same stratosphere as Metro Park which is getting a very unwise and more costly makeover).

Timkin, man I admire the passion and dedication you have for Annie Lyttle.  My grandfather attended school there.  If you, viccup, or any others want to make the case to Firehouse, the torch is yours.  I wish you the best.  If it happens I would move that building brick by brick with my bare hands.  I would also sincerly encourage you to harness that same passion unto the mayor's office in favor of the Landing's parking lot proposal. 

[fieldafm]

There WAS a willing investor.  And I hardly think $150k compares to $2mm.  His Fire station proposal was to house an existing, ongoing business, not a start-up like the LaVila Restaurant.  Again, hardly comparable.


"Hard things are what great cities do"
-- Joseph P. Riley, Jr.  Mayor of Charleston, 1975-     

Vicup, we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree... the city would have had to pay much more than $150k(with money that doesnt exist), and in the end that particular proposal was very one sided.  It would have done much more to add to the wealth of a private individual than to do much for the public good. 

I appreciate your passion.  I encourage you to use that passion to make the case to Firehouse... its a novel idea that I would personally like to see work.  I encourage you to do some number crunching and see what you find out.  It's not as clearcut when pen gets put to paper. 

[Timkin]

I will happily take the case to Firehouse and any other prospect possible so as to see it saved. Fieldatm... Thank you for the compliment.  I personally do not like being in the spotlight , nor am I trying to convey the role of some sort of hero or big shot because I am none of that.  I am a simple man who truly cares about people.    In no way , shape , form , or fashion am I making Fidelity out to be any kind of badguy... That title belongs to persons in our City Government....none of which I would waste time to name or get into a peeing match with someone on the forum over.  Let me just say this ..... I pled my case about Annie Lytle to certain members of City Council  ..again no mention of names...it really doesn't matter.. and to the Mayor...who did by the way (I presume it was he , anyway...coulda been one of his assistants, who knows ) did reply , indicating his commitment to helping achieve the goal of seeing A/L  preserved... Well  if by preserved he meant the building did not get torn down yet , then he fulfilled his promise..  but we all know , including John Peyton , that this was not the nature of my plea...it was to help somehow , the foundation who owned it at the time , find a solution or at least lend a hand towards helping the building.... that didnt mean with a stick of dynamite.  Bottom line... one  (1)  council person stood behind me from the beginning and does to date... I have no problem mentioning the name, Glorious Johnson...someone that I think truly does care about our history, our city and our people.. She has endlessly and tirelessly demonstrated this..and no matter the fate of the two buildings FS 5 and PS 4 ,  I will never forget her dedication and support..  Aside from CW Johnson  the support was ZERO , ZILCH, Nothing , Nada  from any other person or persons representing our city's management , Government and Council.

I regret the demise of so many positions at Fidelity... but that is not an isolated incident either...we all know this is happening all over.   All I am saying where Fidelity is concerned is .. Spend that 1/64 of money you claim it takes to tear it down and wait it out ...just a little while longer , until some of us can locate a prospect.... I have been working on the very same thing for Annie Lytle...and while nothing is carved in stone,, There are some prospects...some of which DO want to come to see the building ( we are talking about School 4 now,not FS 5 .) and are very interested.  given the current economy and the falling prices of real estate, seems to me NOW IS THE TIME to accomplish these tasks..  I know there was a land deal and the city had so long to relocate the Station and all that stuff ....but I SERIOUSLY DOUBT an 8 hour work day was ever spent doing that... It is so much easier to implode it and haul it off in a dumptruck.  Such has been the mindset of our fair city for most if not all of my life, and I for one am sick beyond belief of everything historic ending up a memory.   Fidelity COULD ...They DO have the means to save the station by not demoing it,,but how about putting a  100 dollar banner on the front of it that says  " FREE.....Haul to your property"   who knows??  how could this hurt?  Will they do that or help to move it somewhere else??  I doubt they want to be bothered...

If we were talking about only one or two historic buildings going away  I probably would be upset ,,but not to the degree I now am..  This has gone on far too long and it has to stop.. We have all but lost our historic fabric.

It means alot to me , to learn that your Grandfather attended #4..  That should make the School special to you as it does to me.. My mother , who is no longer among us also attended it, but even had she not, the building is awesome .. it deserves a reuse, and so does #5.  

Respectfully......

[mtraininjax]

A very popular restaurant in Columbia SC spent a huge sum to renovate a train station for its location.  The PR and recognition could not be purchased for ANY sum of money.  Everyone in town, and even throughout the state was aware of it. They have been in business for decades doing brisk business since day one. Your unimaginative "tear it down' attitude is why Jax has lost so much of its uniqueness already.  You must be a native. 

Yes, I am a native, of sorts, and I have seen enough buildings sit and sit and sit, and now houses are sitting and sitting and sitting, but because these houses are in Springfield or Riverside and are empty, we should, save them? And create breeding grounds for homeless, wild animals, allow them to decay and rot and fall down, creating new hazards for tax payers. How long should we wait for Prince Charming to find the money and a plan to move the poor structure, FS 5? Should we wait 10 years, 100 years, how about 500 years?

The time has come and gone, and as fieldafm has said, this is a lost cause and we should devote resources, time, and energy to projects we feel have a better chance of survival. Fidelity does not want this albatross on their property, so it will have to be moved, one way or another. Since no one has a plan to move it, nor the resources, why is this even a discussion? The metrojax readers have a better chance of JTA finding 60 million dollars for their transit hub, than any of us do to have someone come forward with a plan to save FS5.

[Timkin]

I could not disagree with you more, Mtrain.... but you are entitled to your opinion .

[mtraininjax]

Timken, its fine to disagree with me, but I am a realist. I appreciate your passion, but if you are passionate about FS5, find a way to save it. Time and the odds are on my side, prove me wrong.

Be thankful PS4 is not under the microscope as well, if it were on land of a Fortune 500 company or in the right of way, it too might see its end. We don't erect buildings for them to sit empty.

[Timkin]

Do you really appreciate my passion??   I completely agree we do not build buildings for them to sit empty.   Lets leave it at this M...   Im going to go on doing what im doing ..which is fighting to save these historic structures...  You have another "schlitz" and keep stabbing.. Your  "realism"  is pretty horrifying . You need to keep right on with the mindset that time and odds are on your side.   Life has ZERO guarantees..but as long as these buildings stand, and I am breathing..I will be one of those looking not only for a way to let them remain, but to be reused.  Thats WHO I AM .. THATS what I do, SIR. 

  There are those like yourself who watch things happen...and there are those like myself who make things happen.     I hope the day will come when you are sitting back wondering what happened

[vicupstate]

Mtrain, VIRTUALLY EVERY house in Springfield, and a Large chuck of the ones in R-side have been in terrible condition, AND FOR MANY YEARS TOO.  If you haD YOUR WAY, EVERY ONE OF THEM would have been torn down. 

I wish you would be as passionate about removing unused vacant lots as you are about removing unused buildings.  But I guess a vacant lot does add a certain ambience.  It also provides a low cost opportunity for entrepreneurs.

I wish I had known how pervasive you and fieldafm's attitudes were in this city.  If I had, I would never have invested a cent in this small-minded town.

THERE WAS AN IDEA AND AN INVESTOR, BTW.   ALL IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN WAS THE CITY  TOWN TO GET ONBOARD !!!!!

[mtraininjax]

There are those like yourself who watch things happen...and there are those like myself who make things happen.     I hope the day will come when you are sitting back wondering what happened  

We shall see sir, so far, all I see is talk and hot air. Meanwhile PS4 continues to deteriorate....

THERE WAS AN IDEA AND AN INVESTOR, BTW.   ALL IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN WAS THE CITY  TOWN TO GET ONBOARD !!!!!

LOL, I am sure the residents on the Southside share the same convictions. The only people who care about FS4 are those passionate about historic preservation and those who would rather let empty buildings sit empty, to save history. How does an empty building teach us anything about the history of the building? Its just a sad reminder of better times. Riverside and Springfield empty houses still sit empty. I'll take some pictures over the weekend and post them of condemned, still standing structures, and the need to do something with them, either positive or negative.

[fieldafm]

Mtrain, VIRTUALLY EVERY house in Springfield, and a Large chuck of the ones in R-side have been in terrible condition, AND FOR MANY YEARS TOO.  If you haD YOUR WAY, EVERY ONE OF THEM would have been torn down. 

I wish you would be as passionate about removing unused vacant lots as you are about removing unused buildings.  But I guess a vacant lot does add a certain ambience.  It also provides a low cost opportunity for entrepreneurs.

I wish I had known how pervasive you and fieldafm's attitudes were in this city.  If I had, I would never have invested a cent in this small-minded town.

THERE WAS AN IDEA AND AN INVESTOR, BTW.   ALL IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN WAS THE CITY  TOWN TO GET ONBOARD !!!!!

vicup
Call Firehouse.  I posted their corporate phone number.  I actually drove by their office today, so I know they're open for business.  Make your case.  Instead of chastising people on the forums(contrary to your opinion, I'm quite possibly one of the more optimistic and bullish people about our city that you'll meet), use your passion.  The devil is in the details, my friend.

[JaxNative68]

Is there any particular reason ...instead of spending the considerable amount it would cost to demolish the Fire House and pay to put it in a landfill somewhere , WHY that money could not be used towards moving it to some location closeby.... Hear me out on this...

Brooklyn....particularly the area near FS5  has so much vacant property ,it is unbelievable... For the sake of saving this basicly two story house. ( we are not trying to move a 10 story hotel here or anything even close... we are talking about a big house...... SOMEWHERE close by...within blocks of where it now is...making the move very easy  and let it sit on some vacant property somewhere close by until a use can be identified and a place to move it permanently..  Movers ...more often than not will leave the building on the rails they move the unit on... and I would wager there are movers lined up willing to get the work.. I personally know two very well and would call them at a drop of a hat to get estimate if this would help.

  The notion that this is a "lost cause"  is so typical of the lack of vision in this city..  It is still standing and therefore NOT a lost cause.   As I sound like a broken record on the School 4 thread  I repeat ..where there is a will , there is a way... Why not approach Mr Milne...he has 3 vacant lots on College...ask about the possibility of storing the building on the corner lot of College and Roselle for a reasonable sum of rent to let the building sit there.   Where there is a will there is a way..

When will our city leaders get this message...  We really must stop demolishing everything in sight because it is old.... To be an attractive Urban city , one must have a reasonable amount of historic landmarks..  Alot of folks like the look of the old....

As to FS#5  Corporate Firehouse subs could be in some of the building.... why not have a franchise as well in the lower level I cannot think of a more fitting tribute...

The mindset has to change people.....  I could give a $%!5 less about restaurants that never opened or Landing Parking...  Wastes of monies like that give our endangered landmarks even less..

Lets get rid of some of the hugely overpaid salaries residing at City Hall...  That alone would help our financial situation in this city.

As to who SHOULD PAY...to me , that should be Fidelity...if they are so eager to pay to demolish the building... why not do something to their credit and save a landmark by moving it elsewhere..  The costs to them would be a drop of a water in a Lake compared to their land value they have acquired.

demolition would not require a "considerable amount ".  You could probably get it completely removed from the site for under $25,000 - far less than the cost of moving it.